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Old 05-31-2013, 11:14 AM
 
921 posts, read 1,655,114 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gentlearts View Post
There is a TV show about hoarding. It almost makes me physically ill to watch it, and the viewers never get to see a satisfactory conclusion, yet I keep watching it.
I wonder why?
I'm neat, by the way.
Sounds like OCD to me.

I deliberately put it on even though it bothers me. I can't watch it and not start tidying up around my apartment. There was one episode that was so bad, I cleaned out a closet, and bought a new vacuum cleaner the next day.
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Old 05-31-2013, 11:22 AM
 
921 posts, read 1,655,114 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
I just don't see how it's necessary to go through that agonizingly slow process where out of the piles of thousands of pieces of crap the hoarder has accumulated, they start by picking out one dish, holding it up for the hoarder to review, and then saying, "Now do you want to keep THIS or can we give it away???"

That's enabling. For the love of god, put the hoarder in a straightjacket if you have to and let her scream it out while you bring in heavy equipment and clean that mess up. It will be painful but she'll get over it faster.
It's not enabling. Enabling would be taking them to junk stores like Tuesday Morning for them to get more things when you know they hoard.

It's exposure therapy. Hoarding is an anxiety disorder. By having them go through all their hoarded items, they learn that they can let go of the stuff--and the fear that drove them to hoard it--without dying, losing control, going crazy, etc.

Plus, it involves them in the solution rather than treating them like children, that need to be managed, or worse yet, objects that need to be "fixed". If they don't face the anxiety, the underlying problem won't get solved. Otherwise once you clean up their mess, they'll start right back hoarding...and worse this time, because they'll feel defenseless without such a big pile. And they won't let you know the next time it gets bad. How is that a better solution?
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Old 05-31-2013, 11:57 AM
Status: "I miss Rod Serling" (set 4 days ago)
 
48,190 posts, read 48,007,584 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockJock1729 View Post
Sounds like OCD to me.

I deliberately put it on even though it bothers me. I can't watch it and not start tidying up around my apartment. There was one episode that was so bad, I cleaned out a closet, and bought a new vacuum cleaner the next day.
LOL. It has the same effect on me. I put on a hoarder show and the next thing I know I'm jumping up to throw something away or straighten something up. Maybe I should watch it more. My closets need cleaning out.
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Old 05-31-2013, 12:08 PM
 
Location: Monnem Germany/ from San Diego
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Love it. makes my place seem not so bad!
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Old 05-31-2013, 12:10 PM
Status: "I miss Rod Serling" (set 4 days ago)
 
48,190 posts, read 48,007,584 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockJock1729 View Post
It's not enabling. Enabling would be taking them to junk stores like Tuesday Morning for them to get more things when you know they hoard.

It's exposure therapy. Hoarding is an anxiety disorder. By having them go through all their hoarded items, they learn that they can let go of the stuff--and the fear that drove them to hoard it--without dying, losing control, going crazy, etc.

Plus, it involves them in the solution rather than treating them like children, that need to be managed, or worse yet, objects that need to be "fixed". If they don't face the anxiety, the underlying problem won't get solved. Otherwise once you clean up their mess, they'll start right back hoarding...and worse this time, because they'll feel defenseless without such a big pile. And they won't let you know the next time it gets bad. How is that a better solution?
I know all of that. I've watched the show and read about hoarding before there even was a show, and what you say is pretty much the accepted standard. And trust me, I know about anxiety disorders and OCD.

But--how do they know my method won't work if they don't try it? The shock might do the trick when the pampering and babying fails. At the very least, it will make the show far more entertaining, and hell, these people are willing to humiliate themselves for a few bucks to appear on TV. The show's sponsors just have to up the ante to get one of them to try the straightjacket-and-bulldoze method.
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Old 05-31-2013, 12:23 PM
 
921 posts, read 1,655,114 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
I know all of that. I've watched the show and read about hoarding before there even was a show, and what you say is pretty much the accepted standard. And trust me, I know about anxiety disorders and OCD.

But--how do they know my method won't work if they don't try it? The shock might do the trick when the pampering and babying fails. At the very least, it will make the show far more entertaining, and hell, these people are willing to humiliate themselves for a few bucks to appear on TV. The show's sponsors just have to up the ante to get one of them to try the straightjacket-and-bulldoze method.
If you know all that, then why would you think that the straightjacket-and-bulldozer method would help anything?

Exposure therapy is anything but pampering and babying. These people are terrified, and facing that kind of fear is NOT easy. So they do it in small steps. It may take months for them to get rid of their junk. But it's better that they go slowly than not at all, right?

Many of the hoarders on these shows aren't the ones who contacted the show; someone else did it because they need help getting the hoarders to face their situations. Most of them can't see the problem; they think all that junk is valuable, and they shouldn't have to throw it away.

If you want to watch people humiliate themselves for a few bucks, watch the Real Housewives of Wherever; they're more than willing to play the fool for people's entertainment.
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Old 05-31-2013, 12:35 PM
Status: "I miss Rod Serling" (set 4 days ago)
 
48,190 posts, read 48,007,584 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockJock1729 View Post
If you know all that, then why would you think that the straightjacket-and-bulldozer method would help anything?
Because the shock factor might work for some of them. It might not. I don't know if it's been tried.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RockJock1729 View Post
Exposure therapy is anything but pampering and babying. These people are terrified, and facing that kind of fear is NOT easy. So they do it in small steps. It may take months for them to get rid of their junk. But it's better that they go slowly than not at all, right?
Of course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RockJock1729 View Post
Many of the hoarders on these shows aren't the ones who contacted the show; someone else did it because they need help getting the hoarders to face their situations. Most of them can't see the problem; they think all that junk is valuable, and they shouldn't have to throw it away.
Still, they agree to do it and are paid for it. They are not out of touch with reality. And I'm not so sure they think the stuff is valuable, at least in the usual sense. Its value to them is emotional . I'm pretty sure most of them, if not all, are aware that there is something wrong with them. Most of the hoarders I've seen on the show appear to be of at least normal intelligence. If you have a similar disorder, OCD, for example, you KNOW there is something wrong with what you do and the way you think. You just don't know how to change it. Or may not want to change it because hanging on to the behavior is important in your mind. But you know there's something wrong with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RockJock1729 View Post
If you want to watch people humiliate themselves for a few bucks, watch the Real Housewives of Wherever; they're more than willing to play the fool for people's entertainment.
NO, thanks! I would rather throw my TV out the window.
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Old 05-31-2013, 12:40 PM
 
20 posts, read 24,168 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gentlearts View Post
There is a TV show about hoarding. It almost makes me physically ill to watch it, and the viewers never get to see a satisfactory conclusion, yet I keep watching it.
I wonder why?
I'm neat, by the way.
Because you're fascinated by it.
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Old 05-31-2013, 12:51 PM
 
921 posts, read 1,655,114 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
Because the shock factor might work for some of them. It might not. I don't know if it's been tried.
On the other hand, there is a lot of good experimental evidence that exposure therapy helps people who hoard. Less entertaining for the rest of us, but it's about helping them, not entertaining the rest of us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
Still, they agree to do it and are paid for it. They are not out of touch with reality. And I'm not so sure they think the stuff is valuable, at least in the usual sense. Its value to them is emotional . I'm pretty sure most of them, if not all, are aware that there is something wrong with them. Most of the hoarders I've seen on the show appear to be of at least normal intelligence. If you have a similar disorder, OCD, for example, you KNOW there is something wrong with what you do and the way you think. You just don't know how to change it. Or may not want to change it because hanging on to the behavior is important in your mind. But you know there's something wrong with it.
They think it may be useful/valuable someday, so they should hold onto it now and never let it go, just in case...which is what defines them as hoarders. Or they do have an emotional attachment to every piece. I remember an episode of Hoarders with a guy who collected dolls, and he was deeply attached to each and every one. These people are out of touch with reality, because they are consumed with such remote possibilities in a way that distorts their thinking into holding onto junk, garbage, or sometimes excrement. (Makes me queasy to think of it, but it's true.)

Not all people with OCD realize that there is something wrong with their rituals or obsessions, either. A lot of them, yes, but not all.

You said it correctly earlier--it's not a matter of intelligence; it's entirely emotional. And just like OCD, you can't reason your way out of what you didn't reason your way into in the first place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
NO, thanks! I would rather throw my TV out the window.
I'm just sayin', is all! You want to watch fools bein' fools, they're there on Bravo!
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Old 05-31-2013, 03:14 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,670 posts, read 69,784,860 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boogie'smom View Post
It may be just as pathological, but the results are vastly different.
What are the results of each, that are so different? Are you talking about health? I eat food morsels that I discover days after I dropped them on the kitchen floor (like a raw chicken heart the other day), or that I find in the dumpster. I haven't washed dishes with soap in years, I just rinse them in hot running water and air dry them in the drainer. Dishwashing sponge-scrubbers last for a year, if you tie them up in net onion bags. I bake with a jar of sour milk in the fridge that has been working for five years. I've acquired a taste for cheese mold. I eat bananas whole, with peel. I haven't had a sick day in my life that can be associated with anything I ate, because I have a built up immunity to every foodborne pathogen. If "it's bound to catch up with me," it better hurry, I'm 74 now. My depression-era mother lived pretty much the same way, and died peacefully in her sleep in her 99th year and never slept a night in a nursing home..

Last edited by jtur88; 05-31-2013 at 03:33 PM..
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