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And then a man or woman is supposed to do what, if everyone took this advice? Stay home and play with themselves? See hookers? This is ridiculous and hateful advice, ESPECIALLY from someone who was just saying that we need to treat the mentally ill better as a society. I guess your good intentions are limited to the social level, while individually you are willing to doom these people to a life of loneliness without the human contct and love that they -- and everyone else -- needs to survive.
Shame on you.
You can be friends. You don't have to choose a person with mental illness this severe to be in a relationship with, for heaven's sake.
I have mentally ill family members. It is not something you look forward to dealing with. Suggesting otherwise would be foolish, indeed.
Shame on you for acting like serious mental illness isn't a criteria for rejecting someone for a lifetime partner. Anyone who walks into a relationship with someone who is seriously mentally ill expecting to "change" or "help" them is heading for a lifetime of hell, especially with a diagnosis well known for patients who will not take their meds properly and refuse treatment.
And then a man or woman is supposed to do what, if everyone took this advice? Stay home and play with themselves? See hookers? This is ridiculous and hateful advice, ESPECIALLY from someone who was just saying that we need to treat the mentally ill better as a society. I guess your good intentions are limited to the social level, while individually you are willing to doom these people to a life of loneliness without the human contct and love that they -- and everyone else -- needs to survive.
Shame on you.
What I said was this:
Quote:
It's one thing to be related to or involved already with someone who is this seriously mentally ill - then you do have some obligation to help them. It's altogether another matter to DECIDE to start a romantic relationship with someone you haven't known and don't know well, who is mentally ill
NOT A GOOD IDEA.
I thought that I was clear that I am talking about the SERIOUSLY MENTALLY ILL. Not all mental illnesses are incapacitating or potentially devastating. Many symptoms can be well controlled by medication and lifestyle changes.
However, the OP is telling us that she is concerned that her new romantic interest will go off his meds, not be able to work full time or support himself or his need for the meds, etc. I think it's perfectly normal and proper to ask her if she really wants to sign up for this "duty" which can be absolutely grueling and horrible for ALL involved, not just the person with mental illness.
I believe that it's hard for men and women with serious mental illnesses (not talking about those whose mental illness is easily controlled by meds/lifestyle changes) to develop and enjoy long term romantic relationships, or even intimate friendships for that matter. That's tragic and one of the most devastating things about the diagnosis of a serious mental illness.
It's a sad reality that most SERIOUSLY mentally ill people (and the combo of bipolar and schizophrenic falls into that category) simply find it very difficult to maintain a career, a job, a stream of income, and that often impedes their ability to keep their prescriptions current. Their whole life basically depends on staying on these medications. My brother absolutely cannot function without his meds, and yet the meds have serious side effects (including some which make maintaining a job and relationships difficult). It's a tragic Catch 22. And the really sad thing is that he IS lonely and yearns for companionship. But the last romantic interest that he had had to eventually get law enforcement involved because he began stalking her - sitting out in front of her house all night, that sort of thing.
I don't want my brother to be lonely, which is why I just drove 7 hours one way to see him at Thanksgiving. But would I honestly say he's a good candidate for a long term romantic relationship? Maybe, if someone has extensive knowledge and understanding of serious mental illnesses, and if they are willing to be the main breadwinner as well, and are willing to take on the responsibility of making sure that not only does their partner stay on the meds, but that he is also monitored for changing needs when it comes to those meds. And finally, they need to be willing to do whatever it takes when and if their partner suffers a psychotic break - calling the ambulance, involuntary commitment, living without any knives or guns or whatever else may be dangerous in the house, staying home from work because the partner is in an almost unbearable state of anxiety, living with obsessions and compulsions and paranoias and navigating those tricky waters, etc etc etc
Frankly, not a lot of people are willing to actually take all that on. If there's someone out there who IS willing, I have a really handsome, well educated brother I'd like for you to meet!
Have you ever been a part of a support group for family members of the mentally ill? I have. The stories are heartbreaking, infuriating, poignant, desperate...and occasionally happy, but frankly not often enough. I don't know about you, but if MY daughter came home and told me that she was considering dating someone who was bipolar and schizophrenic and who she was concerned about getting off his meds, I'd have a very serious talk with her about reconsidering that new relationship.
One more time, let me reiterate. I am not lumping all mental illnesses into one batch and saying that people shouldn't consider dating someone who is mentally ill. I am talking only about those who are seriously mentally ill. The diagnosis of EITHER bipolar disorder OR schizophrenia would be hard enough. BOTH together? Wow.
To add to the dilemma, schizophrenia is thought to be somewhat hereditary. I know for a fact that it runs in my family. I had DNA testing in fact that showed that I have a higher than average chance of having schizophrenia (though at age 51 with no sign of it, I feel pretty certain I don't have it). Had I known this when I was having kids, I would have seriously reconsidered having children at all, considering what this mental illness has done to the people in our family - my brother, my grandmother, my aunt, just to name a few. Their lives have been so sad and tragic due to their mental illness. Someone considering a relationship with someone who has schizophrenia needs to know this before they decide whether or not to have a family with this person.
You can be friends. You don't have to choose a person with mental illness this severe to be in a relationship with, for heaven's sake.
I have mentally ill family members. It is not something you look forward to dealing with. Suggesting otherwise would be foolish, indeed.
Shame on you for acting like serious mental illness isn't a criteria for rejecting someone for a lifetime partner. Anyone who walks into a relationship with someone who is seriously mentally ill expecting to "change" or "help" them is heading for a lifetime of hell, especially with a diagnosis well known for patients who will not take their meds properly and refuse treatment.
Wow, you said it so much better than me and in a much shorter post! LOL
I post on this forum because I too have several family members with mental illness. I know what can happen. But the assumption many here are makingis that somehow these relationships are doomed to failure and heartbreak more so than relationships between two "normal" people. A cursory look at the divorce rate or watching a few episode of Girls shows that to be a lie.
To be clear, I'm not talking about people so ill they are in for a lifetime of institutionalization, but those who can and do achieve a normal, self-supporting life with medication and therapy. These people can have a relationship with the rest of us just as people with any other serious chronic illness -- cancer, AIDS, MS--can.
But to do so the territory must be negotiated at some point, just as other couples negotiate eveything from paying the rent to doing the dishes to watching the kids. And there are people who are bipolar, clinically depressed, or schizo affective who can do with this with a partner who loves them. I've seen it happen with people I know.
The stumbling block is that the "normal" partner often refuses to do so, or is unable to do so for a long-term relationship. The "normal" person in the partnerhsip is uninformed about mental illness and afraid of it. He or she cannot see anything other than a "burden" while overlooking whatever it is that attracted them to the ill person in the first place. Granted, how they find out can be problematic. Its one thing to be told calmly and at the right time in the relationship (which is different in every case) and a whole other thing to find out about your beloved's condition from the ER where he's on suicide watch. Obviously something like that that can wreck a budding relationship pretty quick.
So I don't "advocate" looking for a schizophrenic to fall in love with, for sure. What I am saying is that tending to a good relationship involves pretty much the same ingrediants, whether one of the people is ill or not. And it is possible.
EDIT: I see I cross-posted with KathrynAragon. Reading your post, perhaps we are not so far apart on this topic as it seems. The degree and severity of the illness is a major constraint on love, and I think we can both agree on that.
And then a man or woman is supposed to do what, if everyone took this advice? Stay home and play with themselves? See hookers? This is ridiculous and hateful advice, ESPECIALLY from someone who was just saying that we need to treat the mentally ill better as a society. I guess your good intentions are limited to the social level, while individually you are willing to doom these people to a life of loneliness without the human contct and love that they -- and everyone else -- needs to survive.
Shame on you.
Let's break it down. Here's the OP:
Quote:
Recently I started seeing a man that is bipolar as well as schizophrenic. Apparently, I like a challenge. I understand the mood swings and depression and panic attacks. My main problem is that he is very poor and has no insurance. He was just recently hired and I don't see how he can hold down a job at all. He is very aware that he can be fired at any time if he freaks out on someone. He wants help and medication, but he has no money. I don't know how to help him find a way to get meds or help at a near free cost. He seems to think that he is just going to finally run out of meds and have to be place in a mental health facility because there is nothing he can do. This seems absurd to me. There has to be some kind of free treatment for people with this kind of issue. I have been searching the interweb looking for some kind of aid, but i keep falling short. Looking for any help you all might have.
Quote:
Recently I started seeing a man that is bipolar as well as schizophrenic.
So - this is a new relationship with someone she doesn't know well.
Quote:
Apparently, I like a challenge. I understand the mood swings and depression and panic attacks.
There is an excellent 12 week course given by NAMI specifically for people who have loved ones suffering with mental illnesses. I would highly recommend that the OP attend this course and then decide whether or not she really "understands" the ramifications of mood swings, depression, and panic attacks. And the delusions and paranoias and "voices in the head" that many schizophrenics often suffer from as well.
Quote:
My main problem is that he is very poor and has no insurance. He was just recently hired and I don't see how he can hold down a job at all. He is very aware that he can be fired at any time if he freaks out on someone.
Would you recommend that your daughter become romantically involved with someone -anyone - who couldn't keep a job, or who might "freak out" so severely that he is fired? What does this "freaking out" look like on a romantic level? If it's incompatible with maintaining a job, how does it affect intimate relationships? These are the OP's words, not mine. I actually do know several people who are bipolar who are able to maintain their careers, with medication and family support. I know several people who are schizophrenic who are able to maintain part time or volunteer work on a limited basis, with lots of family support (including lots of financial support). But to suffer from both disorders and maintain financial responsibilities? Big, huge challenge.
Quote:
He wants help and medication, but he has no money.
I would really encourage the OP to help him find resources OTHER THAN HERSELF, to these dilemmas.
Quote:
I don't know how to help him find a way to get meds or help at a near free cost.
There are basically three options.
1. He can maintain a job with benefits including insurance which will cover these costs.
2. He can file for disability and get on Medicaid, which will cover these costs. This however of course severely limits his options when it comes to earning an income, so he will not be a big contributor financially in the relationship.
3. He can get on his significant other's or a family members insurance (check this carefully - not all insurance plans cover mental illness) and hope they don't lose their job or this benefit.
Quote:
He seems to think that he is just going to finally run out of meds and have to be place in a mental health facility because there is nothing he can do.
Sadly this is what many mentally ill people end up doing, but what they don't realize is that it's not against the law or even a particularly big concern to law enforcement or "society" or the government if they are completely without meds and living on the street under the overpass. I mean, they might get picked up for vagrancy, but one thing that is NOT going to happen is this - they are not going to "run out of meds" and simply be placed in a mental facility for that reason alone. NO - their life will have to have a pretty spectacular meltdown in order for them to be placed at no charge in any sort of mental facility.
Quote:
This seems absurd to me. There has to be some kind of free treatment for people with this kind of issue. I have been searching the interweb looking for some kind of aid, but i keep falling short. Looking for any help you all might have.
The OP is right - this IS an absurd situation, and I really don't have the answers for all the myriad of issues it brings up. But one thing I do know is this - it is a huge job to help a seriously mentally ill person. Where is this guy's family or friends? I mean, she is new to this relationship - where is everyone else?
She could visit the local social services department for answers on the government programs which may be available. There is also probably a local mental healthcare facility. She could schedule an appointment there and sit down with a family counselor who could give her some pointers and possible resources. That would be my suggestion - BEFORE she becomes romantically involved and loses all objectivity.
Recently I started seeing a man that is bipolar as well as schizophrenic. Apparently, I like a challenge. I understand the mood swings and depression and panic attacks. My main problem is that he is very poor and has no insurance. He was just recently hired and I don't see how he can hold down a job at all. He is very aware that he can be fired at any time if he freaks out on someone. He wants help and medication, but he has no money. I don't know how to help him find a way to get meds or help at a near free cost. He seems to think that he is just going to finally run out of meds and have to be place in a mental health facility because there is nothing he can do. This seems absurd to me. There has to be some kind of free treatment for people with this kind of issue. I have been searching the interweb looking for some kind of aid, but i keep falling short. Looking for any help you all might have.
One post and the original poster has not been back to see any advice given so far.
Oh well, if/when they come back if this post is true then there is advice waiting to be read.
Yes, the OP sounds like the type of person who is unifomed about what mental illness is all about in that she is somehow hopes to "change" him. I would not get in a relationship with ANYONE because "I like a challenge." That's just the wrong reason to begin with. She definitely needs to educate herself about mental illness if she want to continue the relationship, and understand that whatever change happens around his illness will come from him, not from her. I am just arguing that there is a category of mentally ill people who are ready and able for a mature relationship. The problem I think is matching them up with the "normal" people who may not be.
And yes, as many here on this forum have said before, the treatment options available for chronic, serious mental illness in the U.S. are horribly inadequate. When the biggest mental health system is prisons and jails, we all need to hang our heads in shame.
Last edited by citylove101; 12-02-2013 at 01:00 PM..
I post on this forum because I too have several family members with mental illness. I know what can happen. But the assumption many here are makingis that somehow these relationships are doomed to failure and heartbreak more so than relationships between two "normal" people. A cursory look at the divorce rate or watching a few episode of Girls shows that to be a lie.
To be clear, I'm not talking about people so ill they are in for a lifetime of institutionalization, but those who can and do achieve a normal, self-supporting life with medication and therapy. These people can have a relationship with the rest of us just as people with any other serious chronic illness -- cancer, AIDS, MS--can.
But to do so the territory must be negotiated at some point, just as other couples negotiate eveything from paying the rent to doing the dishes to watching the kids. And there are people who are bipolar, clinically depressed, or schizo affective who can do with this with a partner who loves them. I've seen it happen with people I know.
The stumbling block is that the "normal" partner often refuses to do so, or is unable to do so for a long-term relationship. The "normal" person in the partnerhsip is uninformed about mental illness and afraid of it. He or she cannot see anything other than a "burden" while overlooking whatever it is that attracted them to the ill person in the first place. Granted, how they find out can be problematic. Its one thing to be told calmly and at the right time in the relationship (which is different in every case) and a whole other thing to find out about your beloved's condition from the ER where he's on suicide watch. Obviously something like that that can wreck a budding relationship pretty quick.
So I don't "advocate" looking for a schizophrenic to fall in love with, for sure. What I am saying is that tending to a good relationship involves pretty much the same ingrediants, whether one of the people is ill or not. And it is possible.
EDIT: I see I cross-posted with KathrynAragon. Reading your post, perhaps we are not so far apart on this topic as it seems. The degree and severity of the illness is a major constraint on love, and I think we can both agree on that.
Yes, we certainly can. As I stated in the above post, I do know several people who are seriously mentally ill and who have managed to maintain and build careers, or at least work part time. But when it comes to the seriously mentally ill, I think they are the exception rather than the rule.
My brother was married for ten years. OMG the hell that he and his wife went through was pitiful. Neither of them handled it particularly well, but I will give her credit where it's due - she gave it ten years and she did try to help him. She didn't know about his mental illness when they got married, so I give her even more kudos for sticking with him for about 8 years after she realized with growing horror what she had gotten herself involved in. It was a heartbreaking situation. See, we as his family didn't even know that he had suffered a psychotic break while away in college. When he met and started dating her, he kept her away from us as much as possible (we came to realize it was because he didn't want her hearing our concerns about his mental state).
So I can't blame her for finally throwing in the towel. Oh, the stories I could tell you - even AFTER he was under regular psychiatric care. Long story short, neither of them handled the situation well in the long run, but I don't know how anyone could have put up with all she did for as long as she did. I do think she tried to hide the severity of the situation from her family and friends rather than reaching out for help from those who loved both of them.
I know that the "normal" people in our family tried for literally two decades to help my brother, to no avail. I have a low tolerance for having them (and me) categorized as "uninformed about mental illness and afraid of it. He or she cannot see anything other than a "burden" while overlooking whatever it is that attracted them to the ill person in the first place." Sure, I know that can be the case, but often it's not. His wife, my parents, her parents, and I all tried everything we could to get him to cooperate with treatment, and to avoid substance abuse - to no avail.
Twenty years and a wrecked life later, things are looking up for him in many ways and ironically it is due to the fact that he committed such serious and violent felonies that he finally got the attention of "the authorities" and no longer had a choice in his treatment.
It's such a hard path. I am not saying that it's an impossible path to happiness, but it's hard for ALL involved. When it comes to serious mental illness, I have a hard time blaming the "normal" family members for distancing themselves when the adult with the mental illness certainly doesn't have to comply with treatment LEGALLY and often refuses to stay on meds, or is violent (not the norm but it can be an issue in some cases), or who constantly disrupts the family, including the lives of kids.
Very difficult choices, which is why I asked the OP if she really wanted to "sign up for this."
Yes, the OP sounds like the type of person who is unifomed about what mental illness is all about in that she is somehow hopes to "change" him. I would not get in a relationship with ANYONE because "I like a challenge." That's just the wrong reason to begin with. She definitely needs to educate herself about mental illness if she want to continue the relationship, and understand that whatever change happens around his illness will come from him, not from her. I am just arguing that there is a category of mentally ill people who are ready and able for a mature relationship. The problem I think is matching them up with the "normal" people who may not be.
And yes, as many here on this forum have said before, the treatment options available for chronic, serious mental illness in the U.S. are horribly inadequate. When the biggest mental health system is prisons and jails, we all need to hang our heads in shame.
I grew up with a step ad who is Bipolar/schizophrenic.
OP please. If you have kids, or want to have them just don't get into a serious relationship with this guy. Even if you plan to remain child free think carefully about being more than just friends.
I don't even care to describe the kind of hell my brother and I lived in....I don't speak to my mother anymore because of it.
I hope your friend can get some help with treatment. But without treatment nothing you can do will make things any better. It is a terrible illness.
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