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Old 11-29-2007, 07:57 AM
 
Location: Texas
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Sometimes I think we do say what we really think when we're angry, but sometimes I think we say things we really don't mean just because we're upset, out of control to some extent, and may have a momentary desire to lash out at the other person. (Not that any of that is good, by a long shot... but yes, I think sometimes we DO say things in anger we don't feel or which is way overblown from what our true feelings are.)
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Old 11-29-2007, 11:10 AM
 
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Thank you everyone for the replies; I'm out of rep points for the day, but I'm appreciating all of the thoughts

As I was reading everything, I thought of one exception or counter-example. Let's say someone is very beautiful and thin (or perfect healthy weight) but someone wants to hurt them, so they might say in an argument, knowing this person cares about appearance: "you ugly cellulite person". [This isn't something that has happened to me specifically, I'm just thinking of an example]. Well, clearly they probably don't mean this, but they know that this is a person's area of vulnerability and that by saying this, they will knock the other person for a loop. So I do think there can be an element of 'power' involved that may be an exception to the idea that anger brings out truth.

But it certainly doesn't bolster their respectability, does it?

But otherwise, I guess I feel that the anger or alcohol is bringing out some degree of truth. There was someone who mentioned something else that I want to know more about ...

About a week ago I had a meltdown from low blood sugar - I didn't yell, but I just lost control and whined - my parents had invited 40 people to a party at my new house, and were just sitting around not helping, not cleaning, just ... nothing and I just started up with "can't you help me here?" - it was pathetic and I regretted doing so, but it was honest, just "out of control" and really not a totally mature way of expressing myself, I guess?
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Old 11-29-2007, 11:26 AM
 
Location: Coachella Valley, California
15,535 posts, read 35,657,884 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenmom7500 View Post
Thank you everyone for the replies; I'm out of rep points for the day, but I'm appreciating all of the thoughts

As I was reading everything, I thought of one exception or counter-example. Let's say someone is very beautiful and thin (or perfect healthy weight) but someone wants to hurt them, so they might say in an argument, knowing this person cares about appearance: "you ugly cellulite person". [This isn't something that has happened to me specifically, I'm just thinking of an example]. Well, clearly they probably don't mean this, but they know that this is a person's area of vulnerability and that by saying this, they will knock the other person for a loop. So I do think there can be an element of 'power' involved that may be an exception to the idea that anger brings out truth.

But it certainly doesn't bolster their respectability, does it?

But otherwise, I guess I feel that the anger or alcohol is bringing out some degree of truth. There was someone who mentioned something else that I want to know more about ...

About a week ago I had a meltdown from low blood sugar - I didn't yell, but I just lost control and whined - my parents had invited 40 people to a party at my new house, and were just sitting around not helping, not cleaning, just ... nothing and I just started up with "can't you help me here?" - it was pathetic and I regretted doing so, but it was honest, just "out of control" and really not a totally mature way of expressing myself, I guess?



I don't think you didn't mean you wanted help. Maybe it just came out the wrong way. I believe when someone speaks something in anger a large part of what was said is what is in a person's heart. Maybe things come out much harsher than they should, but I don't think people just arbitrarily throw things out there for the sake of being hurtful. There is some element of what was said that is in the speaker's heart.
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Old 11-29-2007, 11:43 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Twinkle Toes View Post
[/b]


I don't think you didn't mean you wanted help. Maybe it just came out the wrong way. I believe when someone speaks something in anger a large part of what was said is what is in a person's heart. Maybe things come out much harsher than they should, but I don't think people just arbitrarily throw things out there for the sake of being hurtful. There is some element of what was said that is in the speaker's heart.
Yes, in my low blood sugar example, I just regretted being so whiney (well, it was beyond this, pretty tearful). Sometimes with them I can be a little bit (what I'll call, imprecisely) "passive-aggressive" and say "hmm, glad you are all so comfortable - could you just move your feet while I VACUUM?". The whiney tearful in this case was probably better.
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Old 11-29-2007, 12:24 PM
 
Location: New England
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I think the basic feelings have to be there for them to get blurted out in a fit of anger. The only alternative I can really think of is a spat where one party consciously thinks up something they know is not true and hurls taht back at the other party. Other than that, if something gets blurted out, I think the basic feeling has to be there to begin with.

But I also think that when we get exasperated - at our wits end - over something, that other seemingly small gripes may seem to get amplified and seem not so small anymore. And, thinking about it, it's not that hard to understand. If we're totally overwhelmed in a situation, then every little think is perceived as adding to being overwhelmed and can potentially seem like a big deal at the time.

But note, the basic gripe in these cases is there to begin with. But it's a matter of degree... how big a problem is it perceived to be at the time. When we're not overwhelmed, small gripes can stay small and we may not give them much thought. But when we're trying to juggle too much, those small gripes can start to look very large. Next thing you know, we're blurting something out that we really do mean at the time, such as what goldenmom7500 described in her example, but which we would have handled differently had we not been feeling overwhelmed.

Bottom line here, is the person(s) on the receiving end of the vitriole need to recognize there may be legitimate gripes, on the one hand... but, on the other, it was probably just a matter of perception as to the magnitude of those gripes at the time that resulted in something regrettable being said. And, I think we're all susceptible to doing this sort of thing. But some may become overwhelmed more easily than others, too. Recognizing this, while the person may really mean what they're sayinig at the time, and even though there is some true feelings at the root of it, that does not mean everyone needs to take all this nonsense personally all the time. GB thick skin and allowing some of this to roll off... and forgiveness.
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Old 11-29-2007, 04:53 PM
 
1,727 posts, read 1,355,824 times
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Originally Posted by shuke View Post
I think the basic feelings have to be there for them to get blurted out in a fit of anger. The only alternative I can really think of is a spat where one party consciously thinks up something they know is not true and hurls taht back at the other party. Other than that, if something gets blurted out, I think the basic feeling has to be there to begin with.

But I also think that when we get exasperated - at our wits end - over something, that other seemingly small gripes may seem to get amplified and seem not so small anymore. And, thinking about it, it's not that hard to understand. If we're totally overwhelmed in a situation, then every little think is perceived as adding to being overwhelmed and can potentially seem like a big deal at the time.

But note, the basic gripe in these cases is there to begin with. But it's a matter of degree... how big a problem is it perceived to be at the time. When we're not overwhelmed, small gripes can stay small and we may not give them much thought. But when we're trying to juggle too much, those small gripes can start to look very large. Next thing you know, we're blurting something out that we really do mean at the time, such as what goldenmom7500 described in her example, but which we would have handled differently had we not been feeling overwhelmed.

Bottom line here, is the person(s) on the receiving end of the vitriole need to recognize there may be legitimate gripes, on the one hand... but, on the other, it was probably just a matter of perception as to the magnitude of those gripes at the time that resulted in something regrettable being said. And, I think we're all susceptible to doing this sort of thing. But some may become overwhelmed more easily than others, too. Recognizing this, while the person may really mean what they're sayinig at the time, and even though there is some true feelings at the root of it, that does not mean everyone needs to take all this nonsense personally all the time. GB thick skin and allowing some of this to roll off... and forgiveness.
yes, good point!!

Edit: I have two seconds before leaving for my book group. I guess this post makes me think of an example where maybe the person lashing out could be, say, clinically depressed and then once they take Prozac or otherwise are feeling better, they might realize that their feelings had been out of proportion. And this is not to say that their feelings didn't have some degree of truth, but in a better frame of mind, they might not have found them worth a big argument, etc.
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Old 11-29-2007, 04:58 PM
 
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Yes at the time the person is very angry YES they are his true feelings but as soon as he or she calms down and comes to his or her senses she may realize it isn't that much of an issue and want to compromise and reason at that point.
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Old 11-29-2007, 08:43 PM
 
Location: Old Town Alexandria
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Originally Posted by goldenmom7500 View Post
Hi,

So here is another of these abstract relationship questions that I think about a lot.

So my 'ex' with the anger problem - he would have these bursts of anger, and in these bursts (in the early days when I tried to participate and fight back, these could last for hours) he would say the most devastating things. But then, the next morning, he acted as if he had never said them and his words and actions were inconsistent with what he had said. (You know, he should have never married me, he never wanted a child, etc.). Yes, I know this is a very abusive pattern - that's why I'm 600 miles away now!

My question is (and I don't want to limit it to the above, because this is something that has perplexed me with a lot of people): when people say things in anger, are they typically showing their true feelings or can this just be, you know, just what they say when they are annoyed and out of control? It seems to me that another twist is that sometimes there is a control issue - like if I say something that knocks you off your feet, then I will win the fight and you can't fight back (or whatever).

Does anyone have any thoughts on this? I guess it's similar to my other perplexing question: if someone reveals a bad side (like with yelling, I hate yelling), have they revealed their true selves, even if 99.9% of the time they are lovely and charming?

PS - I'm sorry, I am running out the door, will check in later

I have read some of your posts- I have- been through this, and I like using the words- "common courtesy" ( stbx has never learned this), and also- think, before you speak........

btw I stuck it out for 8 years, so I did try. Abuse is not just physical, psychological and verbal hurts as well- and I deserve better.

JMO
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Old 11-29-2007, 09:17 PM
 
1,727 posts, read 1,355,824 times
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Originally Posted by dreamofmonterey View Post
I have read some of your posts- I have- been through this, and I like using the words- "common courtesy" ( stbx has never learned this), and also- think, before you speak........

btw I stuck it out for 8 years, so I did try. Abuse is not just physical, psychological and verbal hurts as well- and I deserve better.

JMO
thank you
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Old 11-29-2007, 09:19 PM
 
1,727 posts, read 1,355,824 times
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Originally Posted by artsyguy View Post
Yes at the time the person is very angry YES they are his true feelings but as soon as he or she calms down and comes to his or her senses she may realize it isn't that much of an issue and want to compromise and reason at that point.
Yes!

but still, a lot of damage is done in these outbursts ... we don't exist in a purely intellectual world.

good post, thank you ...
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