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I give up. I honestly have trouble understanding people who cannot comprehend core issues versus symptoms, but since it is consensus thinking which is the predominant thought pattern in the U.S., I guess my words just sound like gobbledygook.
I contribute to these threads with the hope that someone might "get it" and might try something different, but I see I am wasting my time.
It's seems sad to me, but if you prefer your illnesses and medications, that if your prerogative.
You owe us an explanation of your medical expertise. Where did you get it? What are your medical/psych degrees and where are they from? I would again say you have not kept up with medical and psychiatric science and need to stop telling people they don't know *hit when you actually don't either.
From what I've observed in the past, when discussions such as the subject of this thread come up, it isn't long before followers of Scientology chime in to post their anti-psychiatry views. I know quite a bit about depression, but am far from expert. Unless someone IS expert I have little interest is what they think about it or what they "feel."
It might be real but drugs aren't helping since depression and suicide rates are going up. Drugs just cover up the problem. A lot of people that commit suicide were on drugs like prozac.
A lot of people with clinical depression commit suicide. To say the suicide was triggered by the treatment is a bizarre distortion.
In each case you described (arthritis, depression, high blood pressure), you are choosing to treat (mask, really) symptoms. You are not addressing the underlying cause of each condition. In the case of arthritis, it could be unprocessed rage (Louise Hay). If you don't care to go deeper, just keep popping pills.
Bullpucky.
Quote:
Originally Posted by imcurious
I give up. I honestly have trouble understanding people who cannot comprehend core issues versus symptoms, but since it is consensus thinking which is the predominant thought pattern in the U.S., I guess my words just sound like gobbledygook.
I contribute to these threads with the hope that someone might "get it" and might try something different, but I see I am wasting my time.
It's seems sad to me, but if you prefer your illnesses and medications, that if your prerogative.
I don't think that you "get" how incredible offensive your posts are. You minimize the illnesses of others by attributing real illness to "inner rage" and "vibrations" and when people get angry and call you opinions what they are, a steaming pile, you get all wounded and offended. People are living with real life struggles, not some Harlequin romance cured-by-crystals inconvenience.
Please elaborate. I have no ideological commitments to this issue or to anything in life, and I'd truly encourage you to expand on your knowledge of SSRIs to the best of your ability. I have no problem saying I'm wrong if the evidence demonstrates that to be so; I just haven't ever been exposed to sufficient evidence to think that I am (not that I'm typically in environments that are relevant to issuing judgments one way or the other, admittedly). Nothing you've said so far has occupied the realm of explanation as opposed to bald assertion. "As someone who works in the medical field" means nothing to me.
The book I cited was nothing more (and nothing less) than [an attempt at] a meta-analysis of all existing (and accessible) double-blind studies regarding the efficacy of SSRIs at the time that it was written. You do realize what a meta-analysis is, right...an attempt to derive a statistical consensus/aggregation of all valid clinical trials that have been conducted on a particular topic. Now, there's certainly a chance (a 100% chance, in fact) that there's better data available now, 7 years after I read this book. But there's approximately zero chance that said book was the work of a conspiracy theorist. So you're already looking quite disingenuous to me.
The link between dopamine and "happiness" seems a bit more straightforward than the link between serotonin and the same, no? Go ahead and demolish my ignorance with your expertise, you medical professional, you. But facts are of course required in any such demolition.
The information is out there, and it's overwhelming. Do you know what "Google" is?
The reason I'm making fun of you is because you essentially said cigarettes don't cause cancer or 911 was an inside job. Sure there is data you could find to support your wild assumption that SSRI's have no more than a placebo effect; however, common sense, overwhelming scientific data and millions of people that can't function without this medication will probably say otherwise. The problem here is that a lot of you people are too young to remember what happened to people with major mental illnesses before we had all these psych meds. To say that these medications do nothing is absolute rubbish on so many levels.
The problem here is that a lot of you people are too young to remember what happened to people with major mental illnesses before we had all these psych meds. To say that these medications do nothing is absolute rubbish on so many levels.
That's a very good point. I had the fortune/misfortune to work in one of those Dickensian psychiatric hospitals, and anyone who minimizes the realities of psychiatric disorders and modern psych meds should have volunteered there.
I don't think that you "get" how incredible offensive your posts are. You minimize the illnesses of others by attributing real illness to "inner rage" and "vibrations" and when people get angry and call you opinions what they are, a steaming pile, you get all wounded and offended. People are living with real life struggles, not some Harlequin romance cured-by-crystals inconvenience.
It is dangerous too and that annoys me more than her aggressive tone or magenta font. I just looked up the Hayes person she quoted and one of the followers was asking for "affirmations" (things they tell themselves to cure what others call medical conditions) and I know that condition (retina tear) requires emergency surgery so they retina can be reattached so the person doesn't lose their eyesight. I hope that person didn't follow that website blindly because he will literally end up blind.
In my 40's, SSRI's saved my life. It seems like I was born depressed and the harsh reality of my early home life did nothing to exacerbate that.
Life is a chemical soup. And my broth is not your broth. This should be obvious to anyone who observes babies. Some cannot tolerate too much huggy-touchy while others crave it. Some can self-soothe, while others need to be rocked. The differences between us begin even before we are born. My explanation that I don't think about politics much is that 'my neurons don't fire that way'. It is glib but it is as good an explanation as any other.
I do take issue with Big Pharma and I do think anti-depressants are over-used. But just as a diabetic needs insulin, I need SSRIs. I have not had a major depressive episode since taking these. I also did the talk therapy when I first started taking these drugs. I had the very good fortune of finding a therapist who was excellent. But these visits are limited by the managed care system these days.
I did try to wean myself off. Epic fail. So now I take my 20 mg of Celexa most days and carry on with living.
Depression is a real illness. The doctors are the fakes. Many doctors seem to just prescribe the medication and then think that's it. They don't bother to try and figure out the root cause. While this may be fine for people who just have a chemical problem, many times the cause is environmental.
Depression which is physically caused can be worsoned by experience as well. When people take ad's and it doesn't help, often its not the full problem. But the real problem is it's cheap to write a script and set an appointment in two months. It costs a lot more to employ therapists who can work with the patient to find the why. In many people that will not eliminate the depression but will make it much less. When depressions suddenly come on it is either shifting chemical moods or enviornmental triggers, and often part of both. If you don't treat both, you don't adequately treat either.
That's a very good point. I had the fortune/misfortune to work in one of those Dickensian psychiatric hospitals, and anyone who minimizes the realities of psychiatric disorders and modern psych meds should have volunteered there.
Exactly. Someone suffering from psychosis in the 1970's would have lived in a state hospital. Now days a person suffering from psychosis might live with a family member or even on their own because of drugs like seroquel and Zyprexia. People like Howard Hughes or Ernest Hemingway would have lived much different lives with today's drug treatments. People just don't realize how many crazy people there where before these drugs. Back in the old days, Almost every family had a crazy aunt, uncle parent etc that was unable to function in society due to mental illness. Now days that number has been reduced down to nothing, and it's because of advances in psychiatric medication.
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