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Your point is seriously that many women will happily marry a homely man, but a man would be grossed out by a homely wife? Why? Is she supposed to grow to love him like Ol' Faithful, because she's so glad to be rescued off the shelf by anything with male reproductive parts? Because that strikes me as the general point that elvira310 is trying to make in the first place.
Women have more choices because they can support themselves. If they don't find unattached doughy, homely, whatever, men attractive, they don't find them attractive. There's also no study or statistic I know of that says it's the sleek throngs of women taking care of themselves, who are the majority OR minority of women who are running around single in order to be chosen in the first place.
And it's no surprise to women that men don't consider that if they force some relationship with a woman who's not attracted to them and finally wear her down into marriage, their wife might have to hold her nose and think of Brad Pitt or James Purefoy to get it done in bed. None at all. A man's ego wouldn't allow for it. I snagged her, ergo, she thinks I'm attractive, and thus she's satisfied with this marriage and our sex life. Women have been told that old saw for centuries by Mama and Papa, until they joined the workforce. "We have arranged this marriage. You will grow to love him. We don't care if he's sixty with rotting teeth [outsized example], that is the way things are and will be for you." This is not radical and new.
As for me, I've dated some scrawny intellectuals in my time and found them sexually viable, I don't long for mesomorphs, but I'm not marrying some dude with womanly hips or an apple belly because I'm "tired of being alone". I'm just not. If a man doesn't think that he's got some flaw or collection of flaws (depending upon man) that would gross me out, simply because women don't get grossed out about anything about men's faces or bodies, that man has been sold a bill of goods. Women are capable of being turned off at the exact same rate as men.
But you're assuming that all guys who are alone are alone because they are overweight.
A lot of guys who have "apple bellies" are married, and yes, to attractive women, who obviously saw past the flaw.
As for me, I've dated some scrawny intellectuals in my time and found them sexually viable, I don't long for mesomorphs, but I'm not marrying some dude with womanly hips or an apple belly because I'm "tired of being alone". I'm just not. If a man doesn't think that he's got some flaw or collection of flaws (depending upon man) that would gross me out, simply because women don't get grossed out about anything about men's faces or bodies, that man has been sold a bill of goods. Women are capable of being turned off at the exact same rate as men.
Exactly this.
I personally think that men and women can be attracted to a variety of types, types that might turn others off.
It was said earlier that if a man isn't attracted to a woman, he won't be able to perform, and of course that's true. But many men may have a less attractive woman as "friends with benefits," or they'll occasionally pick up a more homely woman for a one night stand, but they are ashamed to be seen with her in a relationship. She looks 'good enough' to have sex with, apparently, but she's not suitable arm candy to show off to his friends. This doesn't put such men in a good light and I don't think many women feel sorry for these men's sad plight when they complain that there are not enough women out there who are "good enough" for them.
I've seen many couples where the looks of each were mismatched, perhaps the man was hotter, perhaps the woman was, in some cases the wife was very fat and was that way when the couple married. The guy had other options but wanted the wife he chose. Another couple I knew, the man was very conventionally handsome, the wife was okay-looking but not as stunning as he was, but she had a wonderful sense of humor. I had no trouble figuring out why he married her, but I guess some guys would just see her "average" beauty and be baffled at why a hottie like him would pick her. And it works both ways. Unique qualities, generosity, and acceptance of each other can be big turn-ons.
But when the doughy or boring guys have this sense of entitlement, and expect a hot wife, "just because" women are supposed to not care about his mediocre looks, that's ridiculous. When a woman knows he has this expectation, that he believes "entitled" to it and gripes because women are not making themselves hot enough to please his doughy, unremarkable self, it can be a huge turn-off. Can you say double-standard? Women are getting mighty sick of them.
But you're assuming that all guys who are alone are alone because they are overweight.
A lot of guys who have "apple bellies" are married, and yes, to attractive women, who obviously saw past the flaw.
I don't think anything I wrote exempted the scrawny intellectuals (or other type of non-alpha I did not drag out to example with), from also being "a man who is alone". "doughy, homely, whatever" are intended as three separate random nutshells, because I didn't want to get too deeply into "homely", and "doughy" has already been pulled out as a specific qualifier. Not to say that one man is all these three things, and that is the only type of less-prepossessing man a woman could find. I meant to say that a man whose stomach and thighs are bigger than mine, is MY turnoff. Not the only turnoff that could possibly exist to keep a man out of top-level contention.
Last edited by misskittytalks; 06-07-2014 at 01:49 AM..
Reason: clarity
Where did I assume that, or write that I assumed it? Maybe I missed some essential connector and don't see it, but I believe I wrote merely that I don't want to date a man whose stomach and/or hips are bigger than mine. That is the major turnoff that would keep ME from taking one of those men off the market. I don't believe anything I wrote exempted the scrawny intellectuals (or other type of non-alpha I did not drag out to example with), from also being "a man who is alone".
But that doesn't mean that a girl who is skinny wouldn't date an overweight man.
I used to work with a chubby chaser. She was a 9 on the hotness scale, and she liked fat average looking men.
But that doesn't mean that a girl who is skinny wouldn't date an overweight man.
I used to work with a chubby chaser. She was a 9 on the hotness scale, and she liked fat average looking men.
And there are plenty of guys who are chubby chasers too, like the guy I mentioned before who married a very fat wife (though he had other options).
There are all types, all tastes. Women can be turned off by some types but like others, just like men can.
The expectation that some men have is that women as a whole won't care about looks, and should be willing to settle for some mediocre-looking guy, while the mediocre guy (of course) will be expecting her to be a cute little hottie. In other words, it's all lopsided and a double-standard. She's not supposed to care or have any preferences, but by darn he demands that any woman worthy of his attention be cute and thin and he'll gripe when women aren't making themselves pretty enough for his mediocre self.
But that doesn't mean that a girl who is skinny wouldn't date an overweight man.
I used to work with a chubby chaser. She was a 9 on the hotness scale, and she liked fat average looking men.
I think we are having a bit of talking past each other or my post was muddy, because I don't think I ever said a skinny girl specifically would not date an overweight man. The girls who work hard to keep themselves in shape and the men who do not, were both there in my whole post somewhere, but I did not intend to twin them.
But, it is a question we should ask, because it's also just as possible to assume that men who are mesomorphs will largely date gym bunnies. I think that was even brought up earlier in the thread by a curvy woman with a specific carnal experience with a bodybuilder (oh so long ago...!). In fact, I've been less toned and I've been given the eye by bodybuilders (well, one bodybuilder), which I did find incongruous, because my expectation was that fit men overwhelmingly like fit women. Body type contrast, in my experience, is less the norm for heterosexual couples, at least in NYC. I will stipulate that women do get with round-tummied men. I've seen 'em in droves. I don't run around automatically thinking that they've "settled", but I do occasionally wonder why she's working so hard if he's clearly not, and sometimes I cynically think "just wait until she gets a chance to get pregnant".
But yeah, it could be a hot fit woman with some nobody who looks like Andy Dick. It's just easier as a contrast to use the person who works out juxtaposed against the person who does not, because that comes along with all kinds of possible snap-judgment assumptions like one caring about one's overall health and one not; and also a nice ripe target to wonder in what proportion we see male mesomorphs with that lady shaped like a pouter pigeon.
And there are plenty of guys who are chubby chasers too, like the guy I mentioned before who married a very fat wife (though he had other options).
There are all types, all tastes. Women can be turned off by some types but like others, just like men can.
The expectation that some men have is that women as a whole won't care about looks, and should be willing to settle for some mediocre-looking guy, while the mediocre guy (of course) will be expecting her to be a cute little hottie. In other words, it's all lopsided and a double-standard. She's not supposed to care or have any preferences, but by darn he demands that any woman worthy of his attention be cute and thin and he'll gripe when women aren't making themselves pretty enough for his mediocre self.
Yes, precisely. That is the expectation, and it's a societal expectation dating from the days when it was expected that a woman would be "nurturing", twinned with the whole arranged-marriage thing. She'll nurture and pity the homeliest of cusses, because "he's mine". The woman was supposed to care largely, and sometimes solely, about the man being "a good provider" for her and the future children, and give her children, and not care if he looks like Poindexter after he got hit by the back of a bus. It's only within the past decade or so that it even became permissible for a woman to state in public that she doesn't want or like kids, though even then I think that some people take it too far with their disparaging snipes about "breeders" and "rugrats".
You'll even sometimes have it with women scolding other women for not "settling" for the guy whose looks turn her off, or being "too picky" (yes, guys, it does happen! We do take each other to task from time to time). I've heard the "too picky" women and thought some of them were major jerks, but one with the most ridiculous laundry list of male pet peeves I ever saw, was married 4 times, so she managed to get what she wanted (even if it didn't last). (And yes, List Lady swore that it could be the hottest guy in the world on the subway and if she caught sight of his dirty fingernails, euch! He was out of contention.)
In turn, when I asked my male friends if they had anybody available they would consider setting me up with, and they asked me (as one would), "Well, what kind of guy do you want?" I got mocked by them for this "long laundry list" of 5-6 reasonable qualities, like "creative, must like to read something and I don't care if it's only a weekly newspaper, approximately my looks level". "Whoa Whoa Whoa! Don't ask for the moon here, Missy!"
I thought, "Apparently you guys don't spend a lot of time around women talking honestly to you or something. I know all the cliches of "picky women". I tried to avoid them. I've heard and seen other women's multi-page Lists, they aren't just a movie convention. *I* have no specifications on this list as to height, hair color, eye color, if I see 'em with hair on their shoulders or wearing sandals Do. Not. Want!1!, must keep his fingernails clean, must write poetry for me and bring me breakfast in bed on my birthday, etc., etc." It was a real eye-opener. I thought "Wow, these men are my friends, they should want to see me with the best guy in their arsenal but apparently "to have any preferences at all" about a mate is a no-no. I guess I should change this list to "has a bank account and a pulse"."
Last edited by misskittytalks; 06-07-2014 at 02:39 AM..
In 2010, Aaron Ybarra called 911 to report "a rage inside him" and said he wanted to hurt himself and others, according to a police report of the incident. Two years later, officers responded again — this time finding him lying in the middle of the street in front of his suburban Mountlake Terrace home, ranting drunkenly for a SWAT team "to get him and make him famous."
In both of the earlier contacts with police, officers committed Ybarra involuntarily to Swedish Hospital in Edmonds for mental evaluations. Brandes said he has a long history of mental health problems for which he had been treated and medicated.
There's a difference between being forced into dating someone whose appearance is a personal turnoff, and considering someone whose appearance isn't a quick turn-on. Many women can successfully do the latter (often with fixing up their men's style). Demanding more from resentment is a terrible ploy.
Another thing - few people expect to date way up in looks. When men say/act like they do, it's usually posturing, and those who are serious about it often are middle-aged guys who don't realize their looks have declined or money can't buy affection. In short, that's not why there are so many disgruntled single men.
Women get told aplenty that "nobody really changes for anybody else", and we can point to many people we know where this is true. "I'm NOT giving up my beard for anyone!", and I wouldn't dream of determining that my love is so fabulous that he's going to change his mind and shave off that irritating beard. Some women don't want to take on a man who is "a project" because we and the men find it demeaning. Everybody's got a "burn that shirt" story, my mother and father both laugh about how she talked him out of a green suit and a brown suit that were former staples of his wardrobe, but he was young and still malleable. That's quite different from going out with an unmarried 30- or 40-something who still wears a terrible outfit, has a beard when that's not what she likes, has horrible table manners, and thinks boasting about his D&D dungeonmaster status on the first date is every woman's dream. Many women don't want to take on the project of telling a man that half of everything he does is unappealing to her or uncouth. Some women dig that but some expect our men to be men, and not another child or reclamation project.
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