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Old 06-17-2014, 08:45 AM
 
240 posts, read 239,776 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
So the women who are deemed undateable and sit home on Saturday night are just a figment of our imagination?
Nope, but there's more to it than your anecdotal observations, like evidence discovered through the mapping of the human genome.
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Old 06-17-2014, 09:05 AM
 
Location: Center of the universe
24,645 posts, read 38,552,829 times
Reputation: 11780
Quote:
Originally Posted by elvira310 View Post
And this too.

There's a Catch-22 for women. If they don't put out, many men won't have anything to do with them. But if they do put out "too much," then they are a (insert rude slang term for promiscuous woman) and they are undatable, not worthy of a serious relationship. (Though of course a man can be super-promiscuous and that's totally fine. At the same time his own promiscuous self is "too good" for a serious relationship with an equally promiscuous woman. OF COURSE! Logical, right? )

So we have women who are raised conservative, religious, or for some other reason don't want to put out, that's bad—she's undatable!—and we also have women being told on this thread that since some knuckle-dragger would be willing to spend the night with her, that she is "wanted" and she can't complain that no one is "interested."

So if that's the case, then guys who are complaining about not being wanted should stop. Of course they are wanted! There probably is some repellant-looking granny who would give them a tumble, right? So they can't say they're wanted. Or they could consider another man. That's considered an option, right? If a woman (who is against one-night-stands) must consider the one-night-stand offers as "options," then hooking up with a guy is an option for these men who are whining. So stop complaining already! LOL

Sorry. Doesn't work like that.
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Old 06-17-2014, 09:09 AM
 
Location: Center of the universe
24,645 posts, read 38,552,829 times
Reputation: 11780
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Well summed-up. And don't forget: if women suggest that men can have sex anytime by hanging around the bars until closing time and going with the women who are left, they scream bloody murder. They have to have
"attractive" women for sex, not just any drunk.
Not true at all. Some men will take any woman, not necessarily the attractive ones. Problem is, they may not know how to close the deal, or also no woman will take them.
Quote:
But women have "options" by
doing the same. Women can get sex
anytime by picking up the drunks at the local
pub at 2 a.m.
It usually doesn't take that level of dumpster diving.
Quote:




Yeah, options for STD's and for being used without getting any sexual
gratification at all.

So you are assuming that men are diabolical enough to "use" women, but that it is not possible for women to "use" men?

And you do know that women can have STDs and give them to men, right, just as men can give them to women.
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Old 06-17-2014, 09:10 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,431,289 times
Reputation: 14692
Quote:
Originally Posted by VinceShamWow View Post
Nope, but there's more to it than your anecdotal observations, like evidence discovered through the mapping of the human genome.
And this ONLY applies to men??? Sorry, women end up out of the dating game as well. Men don't have a corner on the market here. Many women are considered undateable by men and women have no real way to increase their attractiveness to the opposite sex as men can through success.
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Old 06-17-2014, 10:58 AM
 
Location: all over the place (figuratively)
6,609 posts, read 4,830,453 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
This is totally illogical given that there are almost equal numbers of men and women in the dating game. If the women aren't having problems dating and the guys are, who are the women dating?

It stands to reason that if a significant number of men are going dateless that a significant number of women are going dateless too. Something doesn't add up here.
They're sharing guys, usually without being sure of it. Or they are somewhat voluntarily single, delaying relationships or holding out for better.

Meanwhile, in the younger age range, most women do receive male interest. Usually those that don't could fix it, often by losing weight.

If taking the term "kissless" literally, surveys and studies probably would show that almost all females who aren't devoutly religious have received romantic kisses by age 20.
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Old 06-17-2014, 11:05 AM
 
1,105 posts, read 1,620,514 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goodheathen View Post
They're sharing guys, usually without being sure of it. Or they are somewhat voluntarily single, delaying relationships or holding out for better.

Meanwhile, in the younger age range, most women do receive male interest. Usually those that don't could fix it, often by losing weight.

If taking the term "kissless" literally, surveys and studies probably would show that almost all females who aren't devoutly religious have received romantic kisses by age 20.
You actually believe almost all females receive romantic kisses by age 20?? You can't get anymore unreal.
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Old 06-17-2014, 12:10 PM
 
Location: all over the place (figuratively)
6,609 posts, read 4,830,453 times
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Presumably almost all-female voters...
poll age at first kiss - BabyCenter

I don't take that as the gold standard, but I'm not sure what place would have the most representative audience.

Thinking that there's little difference in kisslessness between young men and young women would be "unreal."
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Old 06-17-2014, 01:37 PM
 
Location: all over the place (figuratively)
6,609 posts, read 4,830,453 times
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"Girls report their first kiss happened at age 14, while boys are a bit slower and say their first kiss happened between the ages of 16 and 18."
French Kissing: 10 Fun Facts Revealed! - Netscape Love

I think that data is more reliable than other polls, but who knows. If it's true, it would help virgin males to know that.

Maybe a better idea than anything I've said before is to try harder to keep young teen girls out of relationships. It would avoid hurting them and the males who feel left out.
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Old 06-17-2014, 01:55 PM
 
Location: In the bee-loud glade
5,573 posts, read 3,328,155 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
And this ONLY applies to men??? Sorry, women end up out of the dating game as well. Men don't have a corner on the market here. Many women are considered undateable by men and women have no real way to increase their attractiveness to the opposite sex as men can through success.

Men increasing their desirability through "success" is less an option than it used to be. Most women can take care of themselves these days, and so the # of women who would view a man as significantly more attractive for achieving ordinary levels of success is much less today than it was in the past. I view this as a good thing, by the way.

Times have changed in the past 50 years and that can be a good thing on balance, and still be less than a good thing for some men. The truth is that absent the social and economic need for most women to marry, some won't. They won't spend time in relationships that they hope will lead to marriage. In other words, the women who might have married these men 50 years ago won't date them today.

As a result, some men who have mainly qualities that make them good marriage prospects but not much else going for them may struggle through their 20s to find women interested in longer term relationships, and they may have no interest in or struggle to form other types of relationships. I don't see this as a major societal issue in and of itself, but it makes those men vulnerable and suggestable to "solutions". I suspect that this is a small number of men, and I also suspect that most eventually form long term relationships, just later than they would have 50 years ago.

The vulnerability plays out when we add a historically open sexual climate along with a media environment where sex is exaggerated and talked about constantly and where sexual winners and losers are clearly defined and discussed, winners being conventionally attractive women and the men who **** a variety of them and losers being everyone else. Women get inundated with the message that they're not hot enough and products to accomplish hotness, and men get deluged with the message that being a sexual loser is looming and the worst fate imaginable, and tricks and methods to avoid being a loser and win the prize (hot women). Of course people are responsible for the media they consume, but I think a person could be forgiven if those messages wear him or her down a bit.

Then those tricks and methods mostly fail the men who try them. Now those guys see themselves a genetic losers who also lost in their attempt to compensate for the poor hand fate dealt them.

All of this spices up a naturally fairly bland problem into a pretty rich stew of resentment in some men who have the "wrong" things going for them, as well as men who honestly have little going for them. That resentment doesn't justify so much as a cross word toward any real person, but it also doesn't just go away because it's unpleasant.

I think a lot of people in this thread are doing the right thing in response by talking against the narrow definitions of sexuality or the silly ways we define people. If a man doesn't believe that sex with a woman someone else told him is attractive is his only path to happiness, that's a start. Sadly, some men believe that.

Another current on this site is to advise men to adapt, which is key. That can mean different things, ranging from increasing his attractiveness or his interestingness (not a word, I know) to his adapting his expectations and the standards he sets for himself, as suggested in the above paragraph.

No changes occur or need to occur except in the minds and behavior of the men who are asking for some sort of change. As cliched as it sounds, they need to be their change.
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Old 06-17-2014, 02:02 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,431,289 times
Reputation: 14692
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodheathen View Post
They're sharing guys, usually without being sure of it. Or they are somewhat voluntarily single, delaying relationships or holding out for better.

Meanwhile, in the younger age range, most women do receive male interest. Usually those that don't could fix it, often by losing weight.

If taking the term "kissless" literally, surveys and studies probably would show that almost all females who aren't devoutly religious have received romantic kisses by age 20.
BUT SO ARE MEN!! There are men who want to be single and there are women who want to be single. There are men who share women and women who share men. Men hold out for better too. Men don't ask out undateable women because they are holding out for better. Seriously? This is your answer?
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