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If I thought for one second that all women were dating while I sat home dateless in my youth, I would have felt worse than I did. I knew that I wasn't alone.
Logically, if all women are dating, why are there women on dating websites? Why would women need them?
Exactly! You can't turn on the tube without seeing an ad for one of those dating companies. It wouldn't be a booming business for them if women had no need for it.
He doesn't represent anything except for a mentally ill person. He doesn't represent misogyny, or a certain type of man; he just doesn't.
Yes there are women haters and those who abuse women, but that's a different discussion entirely. And IMO it's doing a disservice to both causes to lump them together.
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To sum it all up, I think that this has less to do with society and/or women and more to do with mental illness. And that's what the focus should be on. Equitable care for all.
Those of us who have dealt personally with misogynists can relate them to him because they think the same way, use the same language and have the same ideas. They may not be killers, but there is so much thinking in common.
This guy is a worst case scenario but there is a lot of abusive talk and behavior out there with the same mindset behind it. It's just...familiar and many women recognize guys "like him" and it's kind of scary. I immediately thought of three people I knew or know that have said similar things to this guy.
Women are not all powerful, just because they can get dates easier. They are vulnerable and some guy who is bigger and stronger than us and who is angry or acting weird is scary, even if he isn't a mass murderer.
Exactly! You can't turn on the tube without seeing an ad for one of those dating companies. It wouldn't be a booming business for them if women had no need for it.
The misogynists hold on to a myth that women are always looking for the bigger better thing, so they hang out on dating sites to find something better than what they have.
The misogynists hold on to a myth that women are always looking for the bigger better thing, so they hang out on dating sites to find something better than what they have.
Maybe some do and maybe some men do as well.
But they are being foolish and an existence of loneliness is the fair price one pays in hope that they will appreciate who they have.
Last edited by Simtropico; 05-27-2014 at 05:17 PM..
Your post isn't directed to me, but I would like to respond to it. You ask how society can be more fair, and I can list one thing that I've seen over and over in these threads concerning this shooting. You mention how women need to realize how our "collective' behavior has consequences. I've posted on my experiences with rejection and lack of dates in my younger years and have seen other women posting of their same experiences. Once when I was in my early 20s I was walking down the street when two men coming towards me started making animal noises and remarked to one another how ugly I was. I'm not ugly. I'm not a "hot babe" or a "10" if using numbers is the only way to relate on these issues. I'm ordinary looking like most people are. I just happened to be walking down this street when two angry men were determined to unload on the next woman they passed. What I DIDN'T do was put ALL men in this jerk category. What I'm seeing in so many posts is all women being thought of as the same. There seems to be a firmly held belief that ALL women are dating while men have to struggle for it. If you want a more fair society then men need to stop thinking women never suffer any rejection. It simply isn't true.
Hrrm, I don't believe all women are dating, but most could. I am against men who think it's okay to harass women in public. There's too much dislike and bad behavior between the sexes. Edit: there are two other changes men collectively could make that improve the odds for objectively less-desirable men: avoid white-knighting and undeserved flattery, which encourage unrealistic expectations in women.
By the way, I never said Elliot Rodger faced more than his share of active mistreatment by women. I haven't seen evidence of that. But I'm sure there have been, and will be, other time-bomb "kissless virgins" pushed over the edge by willful, mean behavior from women. And on that token, how do we know he wasn't a member of this forum and got a tongue lashing from unsympathetic females and males? PUA Hate knew about this place, and I can imagine the kind of (now-prohibited) help-me-get-x thread he would have started here.
Last edited by goodheathen; 05-27-2014 at 06:35 PM..
I like introspection and I like it when people have the empathy to relate but to be honest I think you are being too hard on yourself. I'm not putting words in your mouth but it sounds like something in the same vein as, "he could be anyone."
To be honest it kind of takes a lot of work to create a guy like this. There is the family dynamic, the pre-existing condition dynamic, a lack of intervention. Also, CNN reports that four of the six victims were men.So, I'm a little bit suspicious of the idea that he was motivated by rejection from women. Again, that might be how he portrays it in his videos but honestly there is something more going on there.
Excellent point and one of the victims looked like a nerdy little(hate describing the dead like that but to make a point...) Asian guy who I doubt was "cleaning up" with the ladies. In other words he killed a guy who may have struggled with women just as he did.
You're right though why did he kill men? It actually would have made sense from the women angle if he killed some good looking "jocks" or "pretty boys" but I don't believe he did.
Hrrm, I don't believe all women are dating, but most could. I am against men who think it's okay to harass women in public. There's too much dislike and bad behavior between the sexes. Edit: there are two other changes men collectively could make that improve the odds for objectively less-desirable men: avoid white-knighting and undeserved flattery, which encourage unrealistic expectations in women.
By the way, I never said Elliot Rodger faced more than his share of active mistreatment by women. I haven't seen evidence of that. But I'm sure there have been, and will be, other time-bomb "kissless virgins" pushed over the edge by willful, mean behavior from women. And on that token, how do we know he wasn't a member of this forum and got a tongue lashing from unsympathetic females and males? PUA Hate knew about this place, and I can imagine the kind of (now-prohibited) help-me-get-x thread he would have started here.
All I can say is this whole tragedy has been a real eye opener to me. I'm not a young person anymore and seeing how things are in the dating world now days makes me glad I'm out of the picture. The teen and young adult years are rough, and this goes for both sexes. It's the time in people's lives when rejection hurts the most. Most people find ways to cope and move on. I'll say it one more time then that will be the last from me. Your comment that most women could be dating is completely the opposite from my own personal experience when I was younger. I had friends in the same boat. This is in the context of joining groups and such in an effort to try and meet people. I was passed over as men went for the prettier girls just as you men are saying you're passed over if you don't have the good looks, etc. The fact that people are being given numbers based on how they look is very, very sad commentary to me. There are so many more important things about a person besides good looks. The "hunk" or "babe" stuff is as superficial as it can get.
Men and women should not be mean to each other. If a man is getting rude behavior from a woman then walk away and don't waste a minute more of your time on such a person. If a woman is getting rude treatment from a man do the same. If you're in an abusive relationship not being respected by your partner get out! Life is too short to live this way.
In the end this shooter was a severely sick individual. I think if he had not gotten fixated on his lack of dates it would have been something else. He seems to have been a time bomb the same as those two kids at Columbine. His motives were different, but it's the same berserker rage.
Hrrm, I don't believe all women are dating, but most could. I am against men who think it's okay to harass women in public. There's too much dislike and bad behavior between the sexes. Edit: there are two other changes men collectively could make that improve the odds for objectively less-desirable men: avoid white-knighting and undeserved flattery, which encourage unrealistic expectations in women.
By the way, I never said Elliot Rodger faced more than his share of active mistreatment by women. I haven't seen evidence of that. But I'm sure there have been, and will be, other time-bomb "kissless virgins" pushed over the edge by willful, mean behavior from women. And on that token, how do we know he wasn't a member of this forum and got a tongue lashing from unsympathetic females and males? PUA Hate knew about this place, and I can imagine the kind of (now-prohibited) help-me-get-x thread he would have started here.
He didn't seem to have an issue using his real name anywhere else. I don't see why he would sign up here anonymously.
I think the OP has focused on the wrong area. Society needs to stop shaming, berating and ridiculing kissless virgins. Whether women date them or not is not the key issue, it's how they feel about themselves, how they are portrayed, how their peers treat them and the messages / programming they have picked up since birth.
A few may well see beneath the facade of the shaming of those who do not conform to the sexual ideals of media and society but many do not. Many will cut short their own life or others due to a false belief that their worth as a human being is somehow linked to how much sex they are having.
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