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Old 06-01-2014, 07:39 PM
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
11,368 posts, read 9,280,838 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnirene View Post
I was just reading an article and found this interesting:


Medical Causes of Depression

In the same article, is this astounding statistic:
"People born since 1945 are 10 times more likely to suffer from depression than those born before."
I believe that.
I enjoyed life during most of the 1970s and maybe early 80s. It's been mostly downhill ever since.
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Old 06-01-2014, 08:56 PM
 
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I think someone might be more likely to attempt suicide because he or she doesn't have a lot or or maybe even any loved ones.
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Old 06-02-2014, 01:11 AM
 
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ellemint View Post
I think someone might be more likely to attempt suicide because he or she doesn't have a lot or or maybe even any loved ones.
I can understand that as reason. Where my understanding fails me is with my son - he had so many friends and a very supportive family yet his pain was too much for him. Yesterday, 1st of June was his birthday and a good number of his friends wished him on his Facebook page. (One poor lass only found out about his suicide when she came on to wish him). For him it was not loneliness or isolation although he might have felt isolated. He was popular and much loved. I do wonder what the proportion of suicide victims fall into each of the recognizable motivations for suicide.
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Old 06-02-2014, 01:42 AM
 
Location: NW AR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post
I can understand that as reason. Where my understanding fails me is with my son - he had so many friends and a very supportive family yet his pain was too much for him. Yesterday, 1st of June was his birthday and a good number of his friends wished him on his Facebook page. (very poor lass only found out about his suicide when she came on to wish him). For him it was not loneliness or isolation kough he might have felt isolated. He was popular and much loved. I do wonder what the proportion of suicide victims fall into each of the recognizable motivations for suicide.
How many of his close friends know about the drug experiences is what you have to ask here. Sure.. he was good looking and popular but even had you fooled when using. That's what I think his reference to the big ugly Monster your previous wife was talking about. People with addictions are usually are very clever on concealing it from family and friends, so it's always a shock. Even with the best looking kids and smartest kids.
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Old 06-02-2014, 01:55 AM
 
Location: NW AR
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Edit: if he wasn't using, I would say he might still be here, because those thoughts are usually negative especially if he was an Aspie. The thoughts were probably magnifying his insecurites by a hundred fold while using. I can't say for sure, but sure enough to post about it
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Old 06-02-2014, 02:41 AM
 
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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You have actually raised a very important point, greenflute - that of drug use.

Denver never tried to hide his drug use. He was very open and honest - an open book you might say. He did not know how to lie. He told us of all his drug using escapades. LSD and all kinds of things (but not meth). He used alcohol and cannabis to cope. Lately he was doing quite well without either (he was still using but was coping without for relatively short periods). He was actively cutting down. He was recovering. But I will agree that had he not been using he would likely still be here. I do believe the cannabis use/addiction doomed him. It didn't have to doom him but it made things so much worse for him. Some might disagree with me but cannabis is not a medicine! It is a self medication though and Denver was self medicating. Trouble is, it was exacerbating his condition and made the use of real meds a problem. I am not a friend of cannabis!

When I mentioned the effects of cannabis being unnoticeable on him I was suggesting he might have had some sort of condition/deficiency/imbalance that took a cannabinoid to make him function sort of normally. His negative thought patterns may have developed from this condition and became a self feeding, self defeating, vicious spiral.
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Old 06-02-2014, 03:38 AM
 
Location: NW AR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post
You have actually raised a very important point, greenflute - that of drug use.

Denver never tried to hide his drug use. He was very open and honest - an open book you might say. He did not know how to lie. He told us of all his drug using escapades. LSD and all kinds of things (but not meth). He used alcohol and cannabis to cope. Lately he was doing quite well without either (he was still using but was coping without for relatively short periods). He was actively cutting down. He was recovering. But I will agree that had he not been using he would likely still be here. I do believe the cannabis use/addiction doomed him. It didn't have to doom him but it made things so much worse for him. Some might disagree with me but cannabis is not a medicine! It is a self medication though and Denver was self medicating. Trouble is, it was exacerbating his condition and made the use of real meds a problem. [i]I am not a friend of cannabis![/
When I mentioned the effects of cannabis being unnoticeable on him I was suggesting he might have had some sort of condition/deficiency/imbalance that took a cannabinoid to make him function sort of normally. His negative thought patterns may have developed from this condition and became a self feeding, self defeating, vicious spiral.
I don't care for cannibus either but the real big threat here was mixing the pills he normally took with alcohol. That's usually lethal.

Last edited by thegreenflute334; 06-02-2014 at 04:23 AM..
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Old 06-02-2014, 03:43 AM
 
Location: NW AR
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Your post was too long to copy and paste for my cell to continue my post. The cannibus probably dulled his emotions from caring about rationality but the cocktail mix of alcohol and prescription pills are always lethal. Cannibus only numbed his defenses, or since he was and aspie, made him more paranoid. While I am not starting an argument about the two, prescription drugs have deadly side effects when mixing with alcohol.. and his prescription drugs were certainly in his system for a long time , so when drinking the alcohol.. it wouldnt have mattered whether he took his regular meds early in the am or late at night when drinking. The combo will slow your heart down usually until it stops.. but the cannibus dulls your emotions and tells you no big deal. You are perfectly normal with no big side issues to deal with. Makes the real so unreal and lets down your inhibitions for awhile.. but very short lived.

That is my take on the combo but the cocktail is what actually did the most damage. Cannibus told him he had no condition not to do so. Alcohol put him to sleep or possibly put strain on his heart and he never woke up. Also. Your brain will forget to send singnals when the lungs are supposed to inflate or deflate for breathing.. as to telling one hundred other things to function, so it's a Neuro transmitter duller on the automatic functions that are normally in sync

Last edited by thegreenflute334; 06-02-2014 at 04:18 AM..
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Old 06-03-2014, 12:15 AM
 
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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I don't know what meds he was on - not antidepressants, only sleeping pills. He actually died of carbon monoxide poisoning - suicide. I don't know if he was paranoid. Could have been but he didn't show signs of it unless that was part of his "monster". I am having difficulty getting my head around what it was that he suffered from. Bi-polar maybe. Whatever his pain was it must have been pretty intense! I understand (I think) how the alcohol reduced his anxiety. His autopsy report showed the presence of cannabis and alcohol. Cannabis takes a few weeks to leave the system so that doesn't mean all that much but he could have taken some that same day and quite possibly did. The alcohol would have been that same night. I think the police officer said he found a bottle in his car - not empty. I'm sure he would never have been without his weed.

I understood his "monster" to be and acute emotional pain with negative thoughts and feelings and he did have a negative thought pattern. But not always. Not when he was with me in those last few days, three weeks before his death.
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Old 06-03-2014, 10:40 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post
The question arises from my own son's suicide. Not all suicides are driven by the same force I should think. Some suffer depression, some suffer extreme anxiety. But is there a common driving force or are there several unrelated or perhaps related driving forces?

It has always struck me as extreme when someone jumps of a high building. What anguish did they suffer to make them take that step? Why not just take an easy and painless measure? Would someone choose to end their life simply because life sucks and they see no hope for improvement? I'm still trying to understand the enormity of it. I think I understand my son's case but not what triggered it at the critical time (not fully anyway).
I have read through this entire thread and although many people have given great answers I can’t see any answers that directly answered your question. I want you to have some closure for your loss so I specifically signed up to the site to answer your question. I hope a firsthand account of what he went through helps you understand why he had to make the decision he did.

First thing I want to clarify is that the reason that drives someone to suicide is completely unique for every person and can never be answered with a general response. There are too many variables, beliefs different hardships etc. that creates a unique situation that leads to someone’s decision to take their own life. However, there is one thing that holds true for every single person that goes through this experience. I’m talking about the pain they suffer through silently that no one else can see.

I have been suffering from severe depression for over 10 years. During that time I have done extensive study into the subject. I think the best way to explain why your son did what he did is to describe to you the mental anguish he was experiencing. When you get to the point where you have severe depression there are two levels you can be at.

The first is somewhat controllable depending on your willpower. At this level you are extremely sad all the time for most of the day. Try to imagine the saddest day of your life. Now imagine feeling that horrible every day because the saddest day replays itself over and over every day. You have involuntary crying spells every day. If you’re prone to anxiety that feeling is multiplied exponentially and lasts longer.

Your breathing speeds up, you have minor aches in different parts of your body, and you feel weak all the time even when you know you’re physically strong. Your motor skills are diminished. Your energy level is so low that even walking takes effort. For me it was so bad at one time that I even had blurred vision (I have 20/20 vision). Whatever caused the depression replays itself in your head continually and there is nothing you can do to stop the thoughts. It’s as if you’re experiencing it for the first time every single day. You lose/gain an appetite. This depends on the person, some people starve themselves and some gain an extreme amount of weight.

Your heart even hurts from the depression. When you have extreme spikes in your depression, it can feel like someone is squeezing your heart. You will have pain in your brain from all the mental anguish of depression. Sometimes the mental pain is so bad that you want to cause physical pain to yourself to try to block out the pain inside your head. I remember times where I would prick myself with a pin under the desk at work to try to drown out the mental pain because that’s all I could do to try to get through a work day.

You have no hope. The world is dark and grey. Nothing can bring you joy anymore. Everything you once enjoyed brings absolutely no pleasure to you anymore. Imagine all the delicious food, company of friends/family you love to be around, hobbies you absolutely love with a passion; all of a sudden they bring you not even the tiniest amount of happiness. Speaking of happiness, any good events in your life make you feel nothing. Yet even the smallest thing that goes wrong in your life brings you a torrent of pain.

Since nothing in this world brings you relief from the pain, you begin to dream of death. It starts as a thought and then becomes an obsession. Your mind sees it as the only solution to stop the pain. It becomes your only truth, your only goal, your only purpose. It almost becomes a “basic need” in line with eating or sleeping. Think of it this way, when you’re REALLY sleepy, the only thing that will get rid of that desire to sleep is sleep. Good food, sex, hobbies etc. mean nothing when you’re extremely tired. All you think about is sleep. That’s what suicide becomes to a person with severe depression. It becomes the ONLY true desire.

The only natural thing you can do in this state for temporary relief is sleep. That’s the only time you don’t experience everything I described. So the only thing most depressed individuals look forward to is sleep because that’s the closest to death and turning off the pain they can get. As I said before people at this stage can somewhat control how long they wait before committing suicide. They may have obligations that need to be taken care of or they may try to find a solution to help get out of this state.

The second level is what I consider to be the level of insanity. I have been there once and it takes a miracle to get out of this state. I think most suicides occur when someone is in this state because you literally don’t have any control left. Imagine everything I described above except it’s all amplified. The only peace of escaping these thoughts in your sleep is also gone. Even in your sleep your mind is commanding you to kill yourself. I doubt even the strongest man can make it past a month when in this state. I was there for just over a 1 ½ weeks and nothing else ever compares to the pain I went through in that time.

So all of this is what your son was battling with when he took his life. When you’re in constant pain like this, there is only so much you can take before you can’t take it anymore. I have read articles where they did some objective research into how much pain depression causes. They interviewed a cancer survivor who also had severe depression. The cancer survivor said that the pain of her depression so great that if she had to choose she would choose to get cancer again over depression.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post
I can understand that as reason. Where my understanding fails me is with my son - he had so many friends and a very supportive family yet his pain was too much for him. Yesterday, 1st of June was his birthday and a good number of his friends wished him on his Facebook page. (One poor lass only found out about his suicide when she came on to wish him). For him it was not loneliness or isolation although he might have felt isolated. He was popular and much loved. I do wonder what the proportion of suicide victims fall into each of the recognizable motivations for suicide.
So I hope you understand that although your son may have had supportive friends and family, it really doesn’t matter when you’re in this state. Nothing matters. Money, family, love, friends, passions, popularity etc. all give you absolutely no joy or relief from the pain. The only relief is death. So please don’t blame yourself for your son’s death because if he was here today he would tell you firsthand it has nothing to do with you and everything to do with the mental torture he was going through. If there are any more questions please feel free to ask and I will do my best to give you an answer.

Last edited by Lonelyman67; 06-03-2014 at 10:55 AM..
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