Seeking input from people with ADHD/ADD/ODD (counselor, characteristics, thoughts)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Yes, we have done those things. Thank you for the suggestions. I'm not sure why but what I got out of your post is a reminder that I need to be kinder. Easy to say, very hard to do.
Everyone mentions meditation so I'll touch on that a bit more.
It was infuriating with him. He used it to be obnoxious. That's his MO. Whenever we try to do something nice that'll help him, he uses it to pi$$ us off. It's a weapon for him and he uses it gleefully and with expert precision. But we keep coming back for more...a lot more. We keep trying.
Maybe we'll try the meditation exercises again though.
Thanks.
I'm not a parent, but one of my exes had a special needs child whom I was close to. He was your son's age and ODD, among other things. They are also kind of like little sociopaths at that age, is my observation.
Your post indicates a certain lack of empathy on his part. I am wondering if you would see any benefit to the following:
1) Get him a pet, preferably a very sturdy dog, if he likes animals. I would go with an older, kid-oriented dog rather than a puppy. My ex's kid took to me in minutes because I have a dog who loves children and is very gentle with them. She helped him develop his sense of empathy a little bit, I think. She definitely calmed him down. He would be happy just petting her for hours. I almost think you should contact a therapy dog organization to talk about what to look for in a dog. It would kind of be like a service dog for your kid after all and could help with everything from anxiety to developing responsibility and discipline. But this would only work if it fit your lifestyle.
2) Get him involved in volunteering. He's very young, but if you guys volunteer as a family, it may kind of help him get a little bit of perspective. You might not even have to leave the house to do it - the soup kitchens near me asked for people to wrap up plastic utensils in napkins and deliver them to their loading dock. Just guessing, but I think cub scouts or whatever would be overstimulation, and I think doing it with you guys could be a great bonding activity.
Yeah, it can be really hard to be kinder when they deliberately push all your buttons. My ex's kid, well I wasn't exposed to him constantly, so he couldn't really push my buttons. He TRIED but he never got a rise out of me. I wasn't burned out on his antics.
The best was the day when he got really dramatic and threatened to kill himself over not being able to get a 25-cent toy out of a vending machines. I just laughed and said "That's stupid. Do a cost-benefit analysis. Is your life really worth only 25 cents? Everyone would think that was a really dumb reason to kill yourself."
He shut up, and I could see the gears turning. It was pretty funny - he was so used to people reacting to suicide threats that when it didn't get me all wound up, he had no ammo left. He shut up and asked me a few minutes later if we were having mashed potatoes with dinner.
I do think that his classroom is a trigger. A huge one. And so is his teacher. He doesn’t like his teacher and an even bigger problem is that he think she doesn’t like him (I won’t get into if he’s right or not).
That's a huge negative. It sounds as if you're trying to work with the school, though.
My niece was in her teens when her ADHD was diagnosed and she had to try 3 medications before one was successful. It's difficult to consider putting a 7 year old on medication, though.
There's a recent book out on ADHD; review below.
"When I was in graduate school 30 years ago, hyperactivity was a white middle-class male phenomenon: ADD (the new name in 1980) was about the disruptive boy--Dennis the Menace. It was the Tom Sawyer syndrome. And the field said girls can’t get hyperactivity. We used to think the same things about autism—a wealthy white boy thing--and eating disorders, which only happened to upper-middle-class girls. This, of course, was referral bias: Those were the kids whose parents had the wherewithal to bring them to the specialized clinics that diagnosed these conditions.
I can answer through the mind of an ADHD child. I was diagnosed with it when I was 43, and that came as a huge relief because I finally had a name and cause for this "thing" I dealt with my entire life. The "H" finally started to wane some years after that diagnosis, but I still don't sit still well, and still have the attention span of a hummingbird.
I was a pain-in-the-ass child who frustrated my parents, my teachers, peers, and often their mothers. Learning was difficult because I couldn't focus or sit still. A 5th grade teacher once even tied me to my chair with a jump-rope! So I was always behind as a student, although I did better in some subjects than others. I was extremely artistic.
This was in the 60's, long before much became known about it. My mother took me to the doctor occasionally for shots to "calm" me down. They didn't work at all. She also had this liquid medicine that was very foul-tasting, and she literally had to pin me down to the floor to force it into me. I don't remember those working either.
They weren't administered then, but I would have loved ADHD meds if they worked! I always felt different and very inferior from other kids, and could not do a thing about it. Very tough on self-esteem. How great it would have felt to buckle down in class and concentrate on my work!
Meditation would have failed miserably; in fact, I still can't do it.
My poor mother had enough problems of her own without having to deal with my behavioral problems. I frustrated her often, and so I got a whoopin' quite often. Very short-lived results, as I'd be right back at it. (And, no, I don't hold the spankings against her at all.)
The one saving grace for me is that I had no desire to take my frustrations out in self-destructive behaviors when I entered my teens, so I never had an urge to go out and 'get high' and get into trouble. I viewed all that as selective lack of discipline, and I had my hands full enough with uncontrollable lack of discipline. Does that make any sense?
Fast-forward to raising an ADHD child of my own. I knew she had it but a doctor who ran tests determined she did NOT have it. Teachers didn't agree with his findings, either. The difference between her and I is that she became very rebellious in her teens (an area that I do not want to reflect on here). She was 17 when another doctor tested her, and she was prescribed Cylert (milder than Ritalin). This medicine was a God-send for her. She was able to catch up enough to graduate, she liked feeling more "normal", and she was on it for only 6 months, but it appeared to have a somewhat lasting effect.
Lots of people out there like to say things like, "It's normal for kids to not keep still or focus on in class - they're kids!" But here's the difference: Kids who don't have ADD can still focus and concentrate, if in different degrees, when they need to. Kids that do have ADD face that battle constantly. Everyday. Without fail. It affects them every day of their lives. Gratefully, most have a calming interest. (For me, it was lying on the floor to draw, color, sometimes even read comic books - or watch TV for a while. My daughter liked video games.)
Is your child's ADD hereditary? Can't remember if you mentioned that or not. There is also the possibility that he'll outgrow it, but not all do. Thus, remain a life-long challenge.
I have a son with these conditions. Everyone in authority (including us) find him really hard to manage and to like. He can be very disrespectful to adults and mock them and is highly oppositional. He is still young (7yrs old) but the evidence is clear and diagnosis was easy.
I'm seeking advice and thoughts from those who have lived with this. We are doing tons for him but thought I would get more input.
Basically, looking back to early age - what things helped and what would you have liked your parents to have done more of (or anything of) to help you through the different parts of life (school, social, anything really). And at what stages (i.e. ages) would those things have been most helpful?
Thank you.
I don't know if you have a thread there already, but if not I would suggest one on the Parenting forum. Does he have an IEP or 504 Plan at school? Does the school know of the diagnosis?
I'm not a parent, but one of my exes had a special needs child whom I was close to. He was your son's age and ODD, among other things. They are also kind of like little sociopaths at that age, is my observation.
Your post indicates a certain lack of empathy on his part. I am wondering if you would see any benefit to the following:
1) Get him a pet, preferably a very sturdy dog, if he likes animals. I would go with an older, kid-oriented dog rather than a puppy. My ex's kid took to me in minutes because I have a dog who loves children and is very gentle with them. She helped him develop his sense of empathy a little bit, I think. She definitely calmed him down. He would be happy just petting her for hours. I almost think you should contact a therapy dog organization to talk about what to look for in a dog. It would kind of be like a service dog for your kid after all and could help with everything from anxiety to developing responsibility and discipline. But this would only work if it fit your lifestyle.
2) Get him involved in volunteering. He's very young, but if you guys volunteer as a family, it may kind of help him get a little bit of perspective. You might not even have to leave the house to do it - the soup kitchens near me asked for people to wrap up plastic utensils in napkins and deliver them to their loading dock. Just guessing, but I think cub scouts or whatever would be overstimulation, and I think doing it with you guys could be a great bonding activity.
Yeah, it can be really hard to be kinder when they deliberately push all your buttons. My ex's kid, well I wasn't exposed to him constantly, so he couldn't really push my buttons. He TRIED but he never got a rise out of me. I wasn't burned out on his antics.
The best was the day when he got really dramatic and threatened to kill himself over not being able to get a 25-cent toy out of a vending machines. I just laughed and said "That's stupid. Do a cost-benefit analysis. Is your life really worth only 25 cents? Everyone would think that was a really dumb reason to kill yourself."
He shut up, and I could see the gears turning. It was pretty funny - he was so used to people reacting to suicide threats that when it didn't get me all wound up, he had no ammo left. He shut up and asked me a few minutes later if we were having mashed potatoes with dinner.
Thanks for the suggestions. Yes, we got a dog a few months ago - both for him and for our sanity too. We are dog people and needed something for love purposes. The dog I think has been good for him. She doesn't calm him down in the least (the opposite actually) but he loves her and you are right that it is good for his empathy.
Volunteering was something that my wife has been planning to do with him for a long time but we haven't done it yet. It's funny you mention the cub scouts, I enrolled him in the cub scouts a few months ago. It was a no go. We had to skip the last four den meetings.
I don't know if you have a thread there already, but if not I would suggest one on the Parenting forum. Does he have an IEP or 504 Plan at school? Does the school know of the diagnosis?
I hven't posted in the Parenting forum. That's a good idea.
Yes, he has an IEP - we pushed that one through last year when he was in kindergarten. And yes, the school knows of the diagnosis.
Thanks for the suggestions. Yes, we got a dog a few months ago - both for him and for our sanity too. We are dog people and needed something for love purposes. The dog I think has been good for him. She doesn't calm him down in the least (the opposite actually) but he loves her and you are right that it is good for his empathy.
Volunteering was something that my wife has been planning to do with him for a long time but we haven't done it yet. It's funny you mention the cub scouts, I enrolled him in the cub scouts a few months ago. It was a no go. We had to skip the last four den meetings.
What kind of dog? Is doing dog sports a possibility with her? Something like flyball (burns a lot of energy) or nosework (more low-key)? These can be kind of a back-door way for him to learn discipline and sportsmanship. The sense of partnership can really make a difference. When you are working with a dog there is a code between you - and as the human in charge there is an obligation to live up to your part of the bargain that is very hard to ignore.
I have severe ADD, and I grew up training dogs - it kind of preserved my sanity. And by "calm him down" - I didn't quite mean the dog would settle him down. But when he's distressed or feeling ornery, the dog becomes a safe place. I'm under deadline now, and when I am near my breaking point, I just go snuggle up with my dogs. When I was a child, my father would send me out to the kennels to work with his hunting dogs when I was out of sorts. (I'm stressed and under deadline right now, and my elderly border collie - the same one my ex's kid loved so much, but older now - is doing her job sleeping at my feet and exuding goodwill and affection.)
But yeah, I kind of LOL'ed with what you said about the cub scouts. The girl scouts were hell on earth for me. I can't even imagine my ex's kid surviving one meeting.
I can answer through the mind of an ADHD child. I was diagnosed with it when I was 43, and that came as a huge relief because I finally had a name and cause for this "thing" I dealt with my entire life. The "H" finally started to wane some years after that diagnosis, but I still don't sit still well, and still have the attention span of a hummingbird.
I was a pain-in-the-ass child who frustrated my parents, my teachers, peers, and often their mothers. Learning was difficult because I couldn't focus or sit still. A 5th grade teacher once even tied me to my chair with a jump-rope! So I was always behind as a student, although I did better in some subjects than others. I was extremely artistic.
This was in the 60's, long before much became known about it. My mother took me to the doctor occasionally for shots to "calm" me down. They didn't work at all. She also had this liquid medicine that was very foul-tasting, and she literally had to pin me down to the floor to force it into me. I don't remember those working either.
They weren't administered then, but I would have loved ADHD meds if they worked! I always felt different and very inferior from other kids, and could not do a thing about it. Very tough on self-esteem. How great it would have felt to buckle down in class and concentrate on my work!
Meditation would have failed miserably; in fact, I still can't do it.
My poor mother had enough problems of her own without having to deal with my behavioral problems. I frustrated her often, and so I got a whoopin' quite often. Very short-lived results, as I'd be right back at it. (And, no, I don't hold the spankings against her at all.)
The one saving grace for me is that I had no desire to take my frustrations out in self-destructive behaviors when I entered my teens, so I never had an urge to go out and 'get high' and get into trouble. I viewed all that as selective lack of discipline, and I had my hands full enough with uncontrollable lack of discipline. Does that make any sense?
Fast-forward to raising an ADHD child of my own. I knew she had it but a doctor who ran tests determined she did NOT have it. Teachers didn't agree with his findings, either. The difference between her and I is that she became very rebellious in her teens (an area that I do not want to reflect on here). She was 17 when another doctor tested her, and she was prescribed Cylert (milder than Ritalin). This medicine was a God-send for her. She was able to catch up enough to graduate, she liked feeling more "normal", and she was on it for only 6 months, but it appeared to have a somewhat lasting effect.
Lots of people out there like to say things like, "It's normal for kids to not keep still or focus on in class - they're kids!" But here's the difference: Kids who don't have ADD can still focus and concentrate, if in different degrees, when they need to. Kids that do have ADD face that battle constantly. Everyday. Without fail. It affects them every day of their lives. Gratefully, most have a calming interest. (For me, it was lying on the floor to draw, color, sometimes even read comic books - or watch TV for a while. My daughter liked video games.)
Is your child's ADD hereditary? Can't remember if you mentioned that or not. There is also the possibility that he'll outgrow it, but not all do. Thus, remain a life-long challenge.
Blessings to you all.
Thank you for your input. Our boy is not artistic at all. He hates it. If we try to force him, he'll sometimes draw a (terrible) picture but will also sometimes refuse and break his pencils/crayons/etc. and throw them. He has a deep hate for anything artistic. It all goes back to his lack of ability for anything organized. His reading however is very good and his math is good too. But when confrotned with anything that he doesn't know how to do or can't do right, he'll break down and throw a tantrum. We tell him and and over and over that it's not about getting things right. We don't care, we just want him to try his best and to not freak out if he doesn't know something. We tell him how awful we feel for him when he freaks out and that it must feel horrible to him and that we want to help him learn how to remain calm over little deals, etc.
And yeah, I know what lots of people like to say and I know that lots of people think their kid is troublesome, which they very well may be. I've lost all perspective and have no place to judge anyone or anything. We all just do our best I suppose. But I do feel like many don't get it, which is fine. I've gotten over that, small potatoes.
He does enjoy TV and video games - a lot. We (try) to limit those things though. But it does calm him. He can watch TV forever, other kids get bored of TV long before him. And he loves comic books so we've gotten him bunches. He also loves anything a bit controversial like bad language and insults. He also loves comedy and is a very boisterous laugher so some of the comic books are joke stye ones. We also got him a few joke books for kids. Since his reading has gotten stronger, he's been using that as an outlet. The times he's rolling around on the floor doing nothing but making noises and we get frustrated and tell/yell at him to go do something (other than TV or video games) he oftentimes reaches for a comic book and can look at it/read it for a while (like maybe up to 10 minutes on his own), which has been a blessing.
I don't know if it's hereditary, he's adopted. I'd prefer to not get into it but there most likely was no fetal alcohol stuff going on. My guess however (from the little we know) is that his bio mom may have had some of these issues.
We've kind of transcended giving him the opportunities to succeed and moved on to pounding him into a being successful person that will be happy. We are baffled a little. We aren’t anywhere close to wealthy but are both successful people in a professional sense and did well academically too and neither my wife nor I had anywhere close to the benefits that he has. Both of us grew up well below middle class. But this kid has so much more! It’s infuriating that he refuses to accept it. I sometimes think that if we had a compliant little girl that she could grow up to be a world leader with all the things we could do. I exaggerate of course but you get the picture. He can work just as hard as many others but will get further because of what we can offer him – education, connections, experiences and extra curriculars that are amazing. We know and interact with students and professors from Harvard, MIT, BU, BC, etc. We can get him into amazing MIT science camps and Harvard learning groups. We are friends with people who work in gov’t and who have very powerful parents. We would use any of these things to help him with his interests but all he’s interested in is defiance. With so many people struggling, it’s infuriating that we have so much to offer to help him with success and happiness but we can’t build on it. We are going in the opposite direction and are worried he’ll end up with a hard, unhappy, and unsatisfied life. Rather than helping him to get into a top program or learn amazing things, our hope now is to make sure he stays out of prison. I’m in a bad place in my mind right now I think...need to turn it around because failure for this kid isn’t an option for us. He will need to get through and get through strong. And we’re going to plow him through if we need to.
Much of it is selfish. I want a life too. I don’t want to take care of him – I want him to grow up, move out and have his own happy life. And I want to interact with him on an adult level when he’s an adult, not on a constant caregiver level.
Is he diagnosed with all the labels or you think he has them? I have never been diagnose, probably because I never have patience to wait for their report, but I am sure I have anxiety, traces of depression(confirmed by a therapist) and ADHD. I simply cannot concentrate on anything. This has always been the case the more I think about it. I had it at 8, 15, 23 and now at 28. I can't finish a movie even if I am thoroughly enjoying it(and I am a scriptwriter by profession!), never finish a book, mind gets easily diverted. Etc etc
To answer your question....would meditation be an answer at such a young age? I doubt he could be that still.
Wht about going to see a doctor and get recommendation, even a medication prescription if he allows? It's so good that you've realized the issue at this early age.
Self diagnosis is notoriously unreliable. A person cannot be objective about him/herself no matter how much he/she tries. I'm not too thrilled with the ADHD self diagnosis either. It's very overused along with Asperger's, IMO. I did my undergrad and graduate training in Clinical Psychology, and those diagnoses are what therapists often use when they aren't really sure what the problem is. Why don't you get checked out by a professional, even though it's difficult? Obviously your symptoms are affecting your life negatively.
Thank you for your input. Our boy is not artistic at all. He hates it. If we try to force him, he'll sometimes draw a (terrible) picture but will also sometimes refuse and break his pencils/crayons/etc. and throw them. He has a deep hate for anything artistic. It all goes back to his lack of ability for anything organized. His reading however is very good and his math is good too. But when confrotned with anything that he doesn't know how to do or can't do right, he'll break down and throw a tantrum. We tell him and and over and over that it's not about getting things right. We don't care, we just want him to try his best and to not freak out if he doesn't know something. We tell him how awful we feel for him when he freaks out and that it must feel horrible to him and that we want to help him learn how to remain calm over little deals, etc.
And yeah, I know what lots of people like to say and I know that lots of people think their kid is troublesome, which they very well may be. I've lost all perspective and have no place to judge anyone or anything. We all just do our best I suppose. But I do feel like many don't get it, which is fine. I've gotten over that, small potatoes.
He does enjoy TV and video games - a lot. We (try) to limit those things though. But it does calm him. He can watch TV forever, other kids get bored of TV long before him. And he loves comic books so we've gotten him bunches. He also loves anything a bit controversial like bad language and insults. He also loves comedy and is a very boisterous laugher so some of the comic books are joke stye ones. We also got him a few joke books for kids. Since his reading has gotten stronger, he's been using that as an outlet. The times he's rolling around on the floor doing nothing but making noises and we get frustrated and tell/yell at him to go do something (other than TV or video games) he oftentimes reaches for a comic book and can look at it/read it for a while (like maybe up to 10 minutes on his own), which has been a blessing.
I don't know if it's hereditary, he's adopted. I'd prefer to not get into it but there most likely was no fetal alcohol stuff going on. My guess however (from the little we know) is that his bio mom may have had some of these issues.
We've kind of transcended giving him the opportunities to succeed and moved on to pounding him into a being successful person that will be happy. We are baffled a little. We aren’t anywhere close to wealthy but are both successful people in a professional sense and did well academically too and neither my wife nor I had anywhere close to the benefits that he has. Both of us grew up well below middle class. But this kid has so much more! It’s infuriating that he refuses to accept it. I sometimes think that if we had a compliant little girl that she could grow up to be a world leader with all the things we could do. I exaggerate of course but you get the picture. He can work just as hard as many others but will get further because of what we can offer him – education, connections, experiences and extra curriculars that are amazing. We know and interact with students and professors from Harvard, MIT, BU, BC, etc. We can get him into amazing MIT science camps and Harvard learning groups. We are friends with people who work in gov’t and who have very powerful parents. We would use any of these things to help him with his interests but all he’s interested in is defiance. With so many people struggling, it’s infuriating that we have so much to offer to help him with success and happiness but we can’t build on it. We are going in the opposite direction and are worried he’ll end up with a hard, unhappy, and unsatisfied life. Rather than helping him to get into a top program or learn amazing things, our hope now is to make sure he stays out of prison. I’m in a bad place in my mind right now I think...need to turn it around because failure for this kid isn’t an option for us. He will need to get through and get through strong. And we’re going to plow him through if we need to.
Much of it is selfish. I want a life too. I don’t want to take care of him – I want him to grow up, move out and have his own happy life. And I want to interact with him on an adult level when he’s an adult, not on a constant caregiver level.
Whoa whoa whoa... dial it back. Stop focusing on 20 years in the future and refocus on the day-to-day stuff. And try to keep all the avenues open. One of my relatives was a very angry young man (though it was for good reason) - he could have aced college as he is brilliant, but it wasn't for him. He carved out a career as an electrician for himself. He's making more than I am (and I graduated from an Ivy League School, in the upper quarter of my class). Don't go making plans for your kid now - there are many routes to a self-supporting and happy life. Don't fret about the future - you're only going to pass that stress on to him.
And all of this stuff could be something he grows out of. One of my buddies was a lunatic as a 9-year-old, and today he's one of the most stable and responsible people I know. He has an associates degree but worked his way into a vital position at a local company.
Set aside your hopes for his future, your investment in his opportunities, and just focus on the kid you have today.
How old was he when you adopted him?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
