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While I like doing certain "manly" things -- like play and watch sports, shoot pool, and so forth -- there are others that simply don't interest me like they do my friends, including:
- Drinking beer (don't drink at all)
- Assembling/fixing stuff around the house
- Fixing cars
- Going to shooting ranges
- Hunting
Society seems to feel that if you're male and not doing this stuff, you simply aren't a "real man." But I think that's all hogwash.
Do you agree society puts pressure on men to be very masculine?
I've never associated drinking a beer with 'manliness' (whatever that is).
I don't fix but the simplest things around the house. Been there, tried that - I'm just not good at it. As Dirty Harry once said: "A man's got to know his limitations". And I do. And I care not a whit what one thinks about it.
Cars bore me. Guns bore me. Hunting bores me. I like reading, hiking, travel, writing, old movies. Frankly, I don't ever recall having my masculinity questioned because of these priorities. But then, that's probably because I simply don't tend to associate with people who hold such nonsensical ideas.
I don't think society puts such pressure on men, though some individuals undoubtedly will. But what constitutes pressure? Expectations? Scorn? The degree to which someone exerts such pressures should inversely correlate with the amount of respect you give to the opinions of such a person.
The 50 year old white males who are the bosses in most companies talk about sports on Monday morning in particular football. You can be left out of some important conversations and networking if you dont watch at least a little.
70 mile bike rides and 18 mile runs are healthy. But as a boss I had a person who liked that stuff and I just assumed he was a selfish person. He had a girl friend he ignored when he was doing this, a Mom and Dad he could have been helping around the house, maybe catching up on some of the office work or volunteering or going to church whatever. Instead the activity was all me me me me. I know it is great for him. But as a Boss or as his Mom sitting with leaves and snow piling up or his GF stood up cause it was night before "Bike" race I am sure they thought it was silly. Guy is like 32 grow up already
Wow. Just …. WOW. This has got to be one of the most insane posts I've ever read. "I just assumed he was a selfish person". OMG - grow up already? Seriously?
Yes, riding and running can be solo sports. Many people do them in a group setting, but because there aren't often teams they are considered solo sports because you CAN do them alone. (for the most part; there are cycling teams and running groups and don't forget running relays).
But did it ever cut into his work time? Other than PTO? As an athlete, I'd wager he was much healthier than your "manly" employees who sat around drinking beer and watching the game all weekend. Every weekend. And I don't know about you, but in many instances when I've seen people who are caught up in their TV games, you can't even talk to them unless it's commercial time. And you'd better not be between them and the fridge. So you think they were doing more to help their wives or parents than your healthy employee? You think they were less selfish? I highly doubt it.
70 mile rides are nothing to sneeze at. Nor are 18 mile runs. The strength and fortitude that someone will develop from sticking with a program in order to accomplish those feats WILL carry over into the rest of their life, personal and work. I suppose though, if he played golf with the guys all day, you'd consider that ok instead of riding for 4 hours? (for the sake of the OP, I'm not sure if golf is considered manly or not, but most of the golfers I know are men)
If I worked for someone with your attitude, I'd quickly find another job. The day that work dictates what I do off the clock when it is not only not harming ANYONE, but it is actually GOOD for me, is the day I mentally clock out.
What an incredibly horrible, close minded attitude. FWIW, I know a many 50 year old white males who do not talk sports on Monday morning. And those that do, respect me for what *I* do on my time off, even if it isn't the same thing THEY would do.
IME, guys are more judged for doing "feminine stuff" than "manly stuff".
My parents didn't like it when I used to be into crocheting & sewing (I still sew hems, darn socks, stitch up holes, and sew buttons sometimes, but I haven't had time for crocheting in a long time), but I was always rebellious.
My parents & siblings used to encourage me to do "manly stuff" because I look effeminate, they're homophobic, and they've always worried that I was gay (I'm asexual).
No matter how many "manly stuff" interests I've ever had, and I have had a lot, they still think I'm gay. I don't care anymore because I realize I can't cure their homophobia or their obsession about gender roles, and I'm not going to let their problems affect my life.
The 50 year old white males who are the bosses in most companies talk about sports on Monday morning in particular football. You can be left out of some important conversations and networking if you dont watch at least a little.
70 mile bike rides and 18 mile runs are healthy. But as a boss I had a person who liked that stuff and I just assumed he was a selfish person. He had a girl friend he ignored when he was doing this, a Mom and Dad he could have been helping around the house, maybe catching up on some of the office work or volunteering or going to church whatever. Instead the activity was all me me me me. I know it is great for him. But as a Boss or as his Mom sitting with leaves and snow piling up or his GF stood up cause it was night before "Bike" race I am sure they thought it was silly. Guy is like 32 grow up already
This is a strange attitude. There are thousands, if not millions of people who bike and/or run. Many runners get up early and run before work. I know a guy who gets up at 4AM to run. How are these sports anymore selfish than golf, skiing, fishing, hunting, or attending any type of event since it takes time away from something else you could be doing around the house. If I like doing volunteer work and going to church, and my wife doesn't, does that make me selfish for doing these things?
Why wasn't the guy's girlfriend biking and running with him? She was probably lazy or too busy shopping.
I think anyone who spends time exercising should be commended and I would question the sanity of someone who thinks it is "silly."
BTW, I think raking leaves is a complete waste of time.
I agree that in many companies, people and not just guys, spend time talking about sports. In many places, it has gotten out of hand with fantasy leagues.
I'm bookish, don't care about professional sports at all, and while I like to fix things and build things, I'm not very good at it. However, I've never had any problem with women. Hmmm….
At least we can agree on what's going on I guess. That's more than can be said with a lot of issues nowadays. Unfortunately though, you see what is and say, yea that's just the way it is, live with it. I see what is and say no, it doesn't have to be that way. Not only does it not have to be that way, it shouldn't be that way.
So long as human nature is what it is, things will be structured the way they are currently. That will never go away, because of the wide ranges of human personality.
Have you heard of Myers-Briggs Personality test? You should take it, if you haven't already. It does a very good job in assessing what type of person you are, and can give some insight as to what kinds of people tend to be born leaders, who are followers, and all the different types in between.
Technically, you're right. There doesn't have to be a boy's club in the workplace. There doesn't have to be strict limitations on what males and females are "allowed" to be like... but that fact of the matter is, our society and all the social mores that go along with it are the result of, not the cause, of our own personalities.
Until human nature changes to where the majority do not care about gender divides or social conventions, this is the system we will live in.
The 50 year old white males who are the bosses in most companies talk about sports on Monday morning in particular football. You can be left out of some important conversations and networking if you dont watch at least a little.
70 mile bike rides and 18 mile runs are healthy. But as a boss I had a person who liked that stuff and I just assumed he was a selfish person. He had a girl friend he ignored when he was doing this, a Mom and Dad he could have been helping around the house, maybe catching up on some of the office work or volunteering or going to church whatever. Instead the activity was all me me me me. I know it is great for him. But as a Boss or as his Mom sitting with leaves and snow piling up or his GF stood up cause it was night before "Bike" race I am sure they thought it was silly. Guy is like 32 grow up already
And "grow up already" is what I think of when I see this:
While I like doing certain "manly" things -- like play and watch sports, shoot pool, and so forth -- there are others that simply don't interest me like they do my friends, including:
- Drinking beer (don't drink at all)
- Assembling/fixing stuff around the house
- Fixing cars
- Going to shooting ranges
- Hunting
Society seems to feel that if you're male and not doing this stuff, you simply aren't a "real man." But I think that's all hogwash.
Do you agree society puts pressure on men to be very masculine?
The drinking and shooting has nothing to do with a man ... more with a redneck male... But MY man better be able to fix something. I mean men are known to have a thing for that kind of stuff compared to most women. There's a spot in their brain that lights up when they fix cr4p. Just like most (not all) young females are more into playing house and communicating with their friends more compared to young boys who rather do physical stuff like wrestle and play fight. There's studies on it.
Yea I'm not into fixing things.. nothing big anyway or dirty. So I would expect the man I get with to be handy. Seriously there's not much else they can do. Work? lol Everybody does that. Have kids? Yea right. What else? ...minus well make yourself useful by fixing something.
Most guys expect their women to be able to cook and clean. So it's the same thing. Expecting the man or woman to do what they usually do. That's another reason why I don't do relationships. I cook and clean for myself and been lazy about the cooking... don't need anybody else expecting me to do their crap too. But yea my man should be able to fix something.. part of his sexiness and will be a lot cheaper (to keep him) in the end. Think of all the bills you'll be putting out just having to go get things fixed that you wouldn't of... plumbing, oil change, car period, all the crap around the house and and who knows what else... rrmmm rrmm that should come with the package
So long as human nature is what it is, things will be structured the way they are currently. That will never go away, because of the wide ranges of human personality.
Have you heard of Myers-Briggs Personality test? You should take it, if you haven't already. It does a very good job in assessing what type of person you are, and can give some insight as to what kinds of people tend to be born leaders, who are followers, and all the different types in between.
Technically, you're right. There doesn't have to be a boy's club in the workplace. There doesn't have to be strict limitations on what males and females are "allowed" to be like... but that fact of the matter is, our society and all the social mores that go along with it are the result of, not the cause, of our own personalities.
Until human nature changes to where the majority do not care about gender divides or social conventions, this is the system we will live in.
If human nature were responsible, then how do you explain the degree to which gender roles and gender inequality differ from country to country? It's not human nature, it's socially constructed.
Yes, I know that test. I took it a few times 10 years or so ago and came out INTJ. I tried a few more tests the other day too, since someone mentioned it in another thread. I'm still INTJ, although my T&J both went up from borderline to 20-30%. You might also want to check this out if you don't know it: Hofstede's cultural dimensions theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia , United States - Geert Hofstede
It's more for looking at entire countries/cultures though, not individuals like the MBTI. Masculinity is one of the variables they use also.
Are you trying to treat our personalities as part of our innate human nature and suggesting that the system we have is a reflection of ourselves, so in effect we have what we want? Again, I would have to disagree with you. Of course your personality type can affect whether you tend to support tradition (including perhaps more traditional gender roles) or whether you are more open, but personality isn't some innate thing, it can change over time and can be affected by your environment. Consider this other personality test: Big Five personality traits - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Most Neurotic & Creative States Revealed in US Personality Map
Last edited by alester237; 12-04-2014 at 10:11 PM..
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