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Also, IQ tests do not test rote memorization. They pretty much test the opposite of rote memorization. They test how well you can figure out stuff that requires no memorization whatsoever. I know you've never taken an IQ test so you don't know. I've taken several and watched several be administered. The only thing having to do with memory on the test is a measure of working memory, which basically means if you read a phone number once for the first time, how much of it can you remember 30 seconds later. So, how well you can memorize, but not what you have already memorized. Make sense?
Hmmmm.... Trying to remember back to my kiddie IQ test prepping days.... I had the kids practice complex shape/scissor cut completions, dot patterns, symbol pattern sequence recognition/completion, spatial form transfixation/shape perspective changes, the main types of verbal analogies (ex. type of, part of, synonym, antonym, form/function, etc...), shape analogies, vocabulary, some basic Greek/Latin roots, prefix/suffix, some basic memory tricks (e.g. list visualization)... there was more.
They then took a bunch of practice IQ tests - lots of them. I also gave them tips on how to interact with the testing psychologist, and talk about their passions. I made sure they had a good night's sleep and a good breakfast.
Ta-da... A++ on the school gatekeeping IQ test, one of the best gifts I could give them. If they're going to put the game board in front of us, we're going to play it.
Intelligence is mostly the ability to assimilate information (for those that are wondering what it actually is). From all that I have seen and read over the years about intellect the defining feature of high intelligence is a strong ability to think abstractly. People with low I.Q's struggle with abstract thinking and concepts. I.Q is influenced by both genetic and epigenetic factors.
Hmmmm.... Trying to remember back to my kiddie IQ test prepping days.... I had the kids practice complex shape/scissor cut completions, dot patterns, symbol pattern sequence recognition/completion, spatial form transfixation/shape perspective changes, the main types of verbal analogies (ex. type of, part of, synonym, antonym, form/function, etc...), shape analogies, vocabulary, some basic Greek/Latin roots, prefix/suffix, some basic memory tricks (e.g. list visualization)... there was more.
They then took a bunch of practice IQ tests - lots of them. I also gave them tips on how to interact with the testing psychologist, and talk about their passions. I made sure they had a good night's sleep and a good breakfast.
Ta-da... A++ on the school gatekeeping IQ test, one of the best gifts I could give them. If they're going to put the game board in front of us, we're going to play it.
Well yes. I never said you couldn't *practice* for the test. That absolutely helps. But you're not being tested on what you memorized from history class.
Honestly, I think all of the test prep type things like you listed, at an early age, actually strengthen the brain. I would bet good money that science will eventually show that much that stuff you did to game the test actually made your kids legitimately smarter in the long run. I know all ya'll CPSObsessed folks think you're "cheating", but I think your just ahead of traditional science at figuring out the real ways to manipulate intelligence in early childhood. That's my personal opinion anyhow.
Abstract thinking which accurately aligns with reality is hard.
And what's so hard about it? Matematics has a lot of abstract thinking. In all reality, it makes things easier to understand. When you think about it, the way humans see the world is fairly abstract. Humans are naturally gear towards abstract thinking. They just do not know it.
The main issue is that we aren't taught things in a more abstract way. So when someone has to find patterns or abstraction or find correlations, they can't make the mental leaps. I've heard that the older generation has a much harder time with abstract thinking than the younger generation does. It is probably because it's very hard to understand computers without some grounding in abstract thinking.
You actually sound very intelligent, but very under educated. Which means you can learn things well, you just haven't been taught many things.
Hard sciences are occasionally taught via rote memorization. At bad schools by bad teachers. Good schools with good teachers generally teach concepts and true understanding, after which you don't need to memorize much.
Nope I'm not intelligent in the least. I just have a ton of common sense. All things like calculus does is attempt to measure the rate of change in a system. Once you actually understand this simple concept, then the equations are easy to work out. I'm out of practice when it comes to calculus I have to admit it. But I try to keep my mind trained in things like this.
At the end of the day, most schools really don't emphasize the purpose of what the child is studying. Even good schools. From what I found good schools just drill kids a lot harder in learning subject matter. Just enough to jack their brains up to pass test. So schools can look better.
I have worked along people who went to schools in good districts. Most of them really don't understand a lot of advance concepts in mathematics. Why? Because they were taught rote.
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It is the that theoretical physics, or as much of it as has already been conceived, can be understood by someone that doesn't have an exceptionally high IQ. But coming up with new theoretical physics models, that have not yet been "invented" if you well, and then being able to prove or disprove them, DOES take a rather exceptionally high IQ. Learning pre-existing knowledge is easy, creating new knowledge is hard. And also, there have been major recent discoveries in theoretical physics recently. Look up the Higgs-Boson.
People finding methods and discoveries does NOT take a high IQ. It takes a specialized focus in a certain domain. For example, let's say I am working as a truck driver. Something must people wouldn't think take a high IQ. Well I will find ways to save time. Why do I mention this? Because the driver has domain experience in what he/she is doing, and can discover new ways of going about it.
I work as a software engineer. I come up with new ways to do things on a regular basis. Same thing with most people in their fields. A theorhetical physicist is no different. The only difference is, me saving a few hour on task related to work by coming up with new methods or patterns would never make it to a scientific general. But physicist making an iterative discovery is.
And that brings me to one point. Not every theoretical physicist discover things. And if they do, it's incredibly iterative. There could not have been a special theory of relativity without Schroeder, or Niels Bohr. Even Sir Isaaac Newton didn't really discover anything. He just decided to consolidate anything that has already been learned about the study of classical physics into mathematical terms.
So at the end of the day, you give anyone knowledge about a particular domain, they will more than likely be in a position to make a discovery. I'm pretty sure I can take a person with a 85 IQ, teach him most theorhetical physics, and then let him/her know about things needing discoveries.
And there are a lot of half-brained theories in the field of theorhetical physics that goes nowhere. Thinking outside the box really doesn't come down to IQ. I can show you some people from the ghetto who probably have low IQs who do nothing but think outside the box.
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Also, IQ tests do not test rote memorization. They pretty much test the opposite of rote memorization. They test how well you can figure out stuff that requires no memorization whatsoever. I know you've never taken an IQ test so you don't know. I've taken several and watched several be administered. The only thing having to do with memory on the test is a measure of working memory, which basically means if you read a phone number once for the first time, how much of it can you remember 30 seconds later. So, how well you can memorize, but not what you have already memorized. Make sense?
You can learn how to remember. I've taken some psychology classes, and they've talked about repeated numbers. For example, I knew my last credit card number by heard because it only had 3 unique digits. People just don't slow down to think about how to train their minds to remember things. But once you do, then you pretty much got it. IQ memory test could only be so advanced.
Plus in the real world. And I mean in a practical sense there isn't much need to remember anything at all. Most engineers and scientist don't need to remember stuff. They just need to be resourceful.
And actually the only thing someone like me and some scientist have in common is that we're probably all extremely resourceful. I know I am.
And what's so hard about it? Matematics has a lot of abstract thinking. In all reality, it makes things easier to understand. When you think about it, the way humans see the world is fairly abstract. Humans are naturally gear towards abstract thinking. They just do not know it.
The main issue is that we aren't taught things in a more abstract way. So when someone has to find patterns or abstraction or find correlations, they can't make the mental leaps. I've heard that the older generation has a much harder time with abstract thinking than the younger generation does. It is probably because it's very hard to understand computers without some grounding in abstract thinking.
I'm pretty sure I agree with you ultimately, but I don't necessarily think that that is abstraction, I think that's just inference.
With the example of computers and the olds, I don't think very many people know the basics of comp. sci. 101. What 1s and 0s are and how they are able to read Facebook on their iPhone.
In these cases it's more unintended abstraction by obfuscation.
...as I'm sure many older people didn't really know how radio waves or television work.
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I think a lot of people have a very difficult time with abstract thinking because of a lack of facts AND the need for dogmatic belief.
A lot of people parrot and cannot wallow in the grey areas of life because of the need for something concrete. Criticism and abstraction go hand in hand IMO and I think it is more comfortable to not look at things with a critical or interested eye unless it suits an agenda.
That and to your main point, we just aren't very good at teaching that.
While we at it, we should no longer describe people by their height, weight, or color. Why be able to describe anything at all? It usually involves the usage of potentially offensive, discriminatory, racist or sexist terminology.
Oh goodness. It is very evident in your mastery of vocabulary and nuance that yes, indeed, you are intelligent. You have an above average IQ at the moment. Deal with it.
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Originally Posted by branh0913
All things like calculus does is attempt to measure the rate of change in a system. Once you actually understand this simple concept, then the equations are easy to work out. I'm out of practice when it comes to calculus I have to admit it. But I try to keep my mind trained in things like this.
At the end of the day, most schools really don't emphasize the purpose of what the child is studying. Even good schools. From what I found good schools just drill kids a lot harder in learning subject matter. Just enough to jack their brains up to pass test. So schools can look better.
I have worked along people who went to schools in good districts. Most of them really don't understand a lot of advance concepts in mathematics. Why? Because they were taught rote..
Agreed. Except you are defining "good school" by what someone else says, and I am defining it by whether or not *I* think it's a good school. Anyone teaching math purely by rote is doing it wrong, in my opinion. My eldest child goes to the best prep school in the state, and they still teach math wrong, badly wrong, to the point where I literally homeschool my kid in math every night after school. I'm reasonably certain that the school she goes to is the best around, but I still wouldn't call it a "good" school. Not for math anyway.
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Originally Posted by branh0913
People finding methods and discoveries does NOT take a high IQ. It takes a specialized focus in a certain domain.
Sort of agreed. I believe that IQ can be manipulated by substantial exercising of the brain. Especially if you start getting into a specialized focus in a certain domain. So you may start out average, but if you spend the time and effort required to acquire a specialized focus in theoretical physics, you have just increased your intelligence, especially in the thinking skills most used in your certain domain.
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Originally Posted by branh0913
I work as a software engineer. I come up with new ways to do things on a regular basis. Same thing with most people in their fields. A theorhetical physicist is no different. The only difference is, me saving a few hour on task related to work by coming up with new methods or patterns would never make it to a scientific general. But physicist making an iterative discovery is.
I also work as a software engineer. And I bet that just as many people see, use, and benefit from the new method or pattern that you came up with as the one that the physicist came up with.
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Originally Posted by branh0913
And that brings me to one point. Not every theoretical physicist discover things. And if they do, it's incredibly iterative. There could not have been a special theory of relativity without Schroeder, or Niels Bohr. Even Sir Isaaac Newton didn't really discover anything. He just decided to consolidate anything that has already been learned about the study of classical physics into mathematical terms.
I agree about the iterativeness of scientific discoveries, but I disagree that folks like Sir Isaac Newton didn't really add anything to the knowledge base. Yes he consolidated, but he consolidated in such a way that no one else had ever done before, in a way that was useful for new applications. I mean, come on. You can't tell me Alan Turing wasn't an absolute genius. I understand the theory of computation as well as the next coder, but I never could have come up with that in a way that would enable one to build a modern computer on my own.
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Originally Posted by branh0913
So at the end of the day, you give anyone knowledge about a particular domain, they will more than likely be in a position to make a discovery. I'm pretty sure I can take a person with a 85 IQ, teach him most theorhetical physics, and then let him/her know about things needing discoveries.
And at the end of the day, if you have taught that person with an 85 IQ most theoretical physics, I'd be willing to bet that if you tested him properly again, his IQ wouldn't be 85 anymore.
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Originally Posted by branh0913
And there are a lot of half-brained theories in the field of theorhetical physics that goes nowhere. Thinking outside the box really doesn't come down to IQ. I can show you some people from the ghetto who probably have low IQs who do nothing but think outside the box.
There are sh*ttons of people in the ghetto who have little to no book knowledge but very high IQs. They do nothing but think outside the box. Good lord, gangleaders and crime lords who manage to not get themselves killed are usually geniuses in their own right. Why do you think people follow them?
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Originally Posted by branh0913
You can learn how to remember. I've taken some psychology classes, and they've talked about repeated numbers. For example, I knew my last credit card number by heard because it only had 3 unique digits. People just don't slow down to think about how to train their minds to remember things. But once you do, then you pretty much got it. IQ memory test could only be so advanced.
Yup. Mnemonics. But when you have trained yourself extensively in the use of mnemonics, you have made yourself smarter.
The brain is like a muscle. When you are born, you can be genetically predisposed to be very strong, with big muscles, or very scrawny. But no matter how you are born, you can still go in the gym and lift weights, and you will get stronger. Or you can sit on your couch at home and get weaker. If you are weak, you will not be able to lift that heavy thing. Period. But, barring physical complications like an injury or illness, if you go to the gym and lift weights for years and years, then you will most likely be able to eventually lift it.
When you are born, you are genetically predisposed towards a strong or weak intelligence. If you work your brain very hard, day after day, you can make yourself more intelligent. If you smoke pot and stare at a TV all day every day, you can make yourself dumber. If you are dumb, you can't do theoretical physics. But, barring mental complications like a learning disability, if you study math and science for years and years, then you will most likely be able to eventually understand it.
An IQ score above 150 is 1 in 1,125. There are 1,969,565 members on City-Data Forums. That's 1,751 possible 150 level geniuses to respond on this thread. Any thread with the term "IQ" in the title is a magnet for those with high-IQ. Which means anyone who knows they have a high IQ are going to be drawn to post in the thread.
I don't doubt the IQ's of the posters here for one second. I know mine is 140, as tested by a professional, more than once, and confirmed by Mensa. The average American isn't on this thread, guarantee you.
Holy crap.
You just used actual numbers and applied logic to it in a correct fashion....I'm not sure which one but I was beginning to wonder if that was against the TOS around here.
+1
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