Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I'm 22, so I haven't had many transitions in life, but so far I have
graduated high school
moved into a college campus
graduated college
got first job
bought first "house" [condo]
most of my friends have done all that + gotten engaged. a few are even married with their own child.
I would say the biggest transition I made was from college student to working adult. Even then, I had it pretty easy. I had interned and then had a co op at the same company and was going to work on the same team that I interned on.
I think most of my friends would say having a child changed them, and then getting married.
It is a big transition to leave school and start working. For me an even bigger transition, even more than marriage, was the beginning of parenthood. Suddenly I was responsible for a tiny human I had brought into the world. This for me was huge.
Another big transition was to empty nester after about 2 decades of family life. This is pretty big, although when I was in the moment, it didn't seem so big. Only later, when I began missing my kids, did I feel this sort of empty space. My kids moved away for their work, and I missed having them in the house.
My answer would be "becoming a father". But biggest does not necessarily mean the best or most desirable transition. 30 years after the last one was born, I have found fatherhood on balance, to be stressful and unrewarding. There is something gob-smacking about the fierce love you feel for your first child, nothing can prepare you for it. But don't seek it out just because it's what one does, or because everyone else is doing, or you think it will make you happy, or you worry that you'll miss out on happiness without it. It is about them, not about you. It is hard work; like the first blush of love, what attracts you to it has nothing to do with how rewarding or fulfilling it is or isn't.
My answer would be "becoming a father". But biggest does not necessarily mean the best or most desirable transition. 30 years after the last one was born, I have found fatherhood on balance, to be stressful and unrewarding. There is something gob-smacking about the fierce love you feel for your first child, nothing can prepare you for it. But don't seek it out just because it's what one does, or because everyone else is doing, or you think it will make you happy, or you worry that you'll miss out on happiness without it. It is about them, not about you. It is hard work; like the first blush of love, what attracts you to it has nothing to do with how rewarding or fulfilling it is or isn't.
parenthood is unrewarding to you? poor kids. and it seems like you didn't stop at one.
parenthood is unrewarding to you? poor kids. and it seems like you didn't stop at one.
Unlike you, I learned long ago not to judge parents by their children, or children by their parents, or either one by outcomes. I have seen wonderful human beings result from (or, rather, despite) hideous parenting and I have seen black spots on the face of humanity result from devoted (and devastated) parents. More to the point, perhaps, I've seen a variety of outcomes from the more typical sort of parenting, which is somewhat indifferent and seat of the pants. Because let's face it, new parents make it up as they go. We think we have child #1 figured out, and then child #2 doesn't play by those rules, or possibly any discernible rules. I even knew a family where child #2 was a threat to the safety and well being of child #1, to the parents, and to the world at large frankly.
Parents have a role and a responsibility; but so do children, particularly as they mature. People very often forget the latter point and assume there's some magic formula for parents to follow that guarantees all the high hopes and dreams that goes into the project. But guess what, children make choices too, and they don't belong to you. They're just in your care. You can do them no harm and they can still do themselves and others harm -- including you.
I did not say that I don't love my children, or that they are unhappy with me or their childhood or their life, or that they aren't doing well as adults -- or even that I'm disappointed in them as people. I didn't say that there were not aspects of parenting that were rewarding. I just said that it is not emotionally satisfying on balance for me. And that is not a judgement I could possibly make until it was all over. And inherently therefore it's not a judgment I ever laid on my kids. Nor would I, even if it had been possible.
The point is not that parenting is a raw deal for everyone. People's mileage can and will vary. The point is that there's a nonzero possibility of less than thrilling outcomes. Like all forms of love, it leaves you vulnerable to hurt. As I said in my post that you're responding to, parenting is all about them, not you. You have to do right by them (as I did) but it is not a foregone conclusion that you will find the net experience either positive or even just rationalizable, simply because you are sincere and diligent and want it to be so. It depends on your personality and needs, their personality and needs, influences outside the home (which are nontrivial) and a certain amount of dumb luck, if we're going to be honest about it. And, did I mention? Children have their own will and make their own decisions too. You have less and less control over that as they get older.
People like you who are quick to jump to negative conclusions are often the same people who will judge childless couples as selfish or lazy, or who judge divorced couples for lack of effort, etc., etc.
Maybe you loved parenting and had good outcomes. Good for you. Don't congratulate yourself on your brilliance however. There was far more luck involved than you're likely willing to admit.
Unlike you, I learned long ago not to judge parents by their children, or children by their parents, or either one by outcomes. I have seen wonderful human beings result from (or, rather, despite) hideous parenting and I have seen black spots on the face of humanity result from devoted (and devastated) parents. More to the point, perhaps, I've seen a variety of outcomes from the more typical sort of parenting, which is somewhat indifferent and seat of the pants. Because let's face it, new parents make it up as they go. We think we have child #1 figured out, and then child #2 doesn't play by those rules, or possibly any discernible rules. I even knew a family where child #2 was a threat to the safety and well being of child #1, to the parents, and to the world at large frankly.
Parents have a role and a responsibility; but so do children, particularly as they mature. People very often forget the latter point and assume there's some magic formula for parents to follow that guarantees all the high hopes and dreams that goes into the project. But guess what, children make choices too, and they don't belong to you. They're just in your care. You can do them no harm and they can still do themselves and others harm -- including you.
I did not say that I don't love my children, or that they are unhappy with me or their childhood or their life, or that they aren't doing well as adults -- or even that I'm disappointed in them as people. I didn't say that there were not aspects of parenting that were rewarding. I just said that it is not emotionally satisfying on balance for me. And that is not a judgement I could possibly make until it was all over. And inherently therefore it's not a judgment I ever laid on my kids. Nor would I, even if it had been possible.
The point is not that parenting is a raw deal for everyone. People's mileage can and will vary. The point is that there's a nonzero possibility of less than thrilling outcomes. Like all forms of love, it leaves you vulnerable to hurt. As I said in my post that you're responding to, parenting is all about them, not you. You have to do right by them (as I did) but it is not a foregone conclusion that you will find the net experience either positive or even just rationalizable, simply because you are sincere and diligent and want it to be so. It depends on your personality and needs, their personality and needs, influences outside the home (which are nontrivial) and a certain amount of dumb luck, if we're going to be honest about it. And, did I mention? Children have their own will and make their own decisions too. You have less and less control over that as they get older.
People like you who are quick to jump to negative conclusions are often the same people who will judge childless couples as selfish or lazy, or who judge divorced couples for lack of effort, etc., etc.
Maybe you loved parenting and had good outcomes. Good for you. Don't congratulate yourself on your brilliance however. There was far more luck involved than you're likely willing to admit.
your first two paragraphs were complete tangents. Though there is a correlation between bad parenting and messed up kids.
I have found fatherhood on balance, to be stressful and unrewarding.
kids can pick on being a burden to their parents. If you knew it was going to be all about them (did you seriously think parenting was going to be about you?), what's unrewarding about that?
you also said
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant
I didn't say that there were not aspects of parenting that were rewarding. I just said that it is not emotionally satisfying on balance for me. And that is not a judgement I could possibly make until it was all over.
Also, it's repeatedly said that parenting is never over.
You clearly come off as a resentful (and somewhat selfish) parent (children have their own will when they get older...ok...how is that surprising? You also don't deserve praise for doing right by your children. that's expected.). That's worthy to be judged. I think it's pretty obvious you should have never been a parent, and it's sad that you realized this and still continued to have kids.
Your first day in school
Your first day in high school
College graduation
First day on a full time job
The first 5 years a marriage
Buying your first house
Paying off your first house
Getting my first pilot license and transitioning from ground pounder to airborne.
Retiring completely after 40 years of work and transitioning from always having some one else to tell you what to do to having complete control over every min of every day.
Of all these significant events the biggest transition was the last RETIREMENT. Everything about your life changes, nothing stays the same.
That's worthy to be judged. I think it's pretty obvious you should have never been a parent, and it's sad that you realized this and still continued to have kids.
No it is not, and you are completely impertinent and out of line. My first paragraph of my reply was totally relevant to what you are doing. You cannot look at how children act -- grown or not, and conclude from it that "obviously" I "have never been a parent", particularly while not knowing me or my children. If parenting were that mechanical and rote no one would ever have bad outcomes. If you think all unsatisfactory outcomes are 100% due to unsatisfactory parents, then you are hopelessly out of touch.
Nor can you look at how a parent honestly feels and use that to jump to all sorts of conclusions. Everyone has both the right and the responsibility to feel what they feel and to own it.
You can't legitimately assume that if you parent correctly your children will necessarily value, honor and respect you as their parents. It assumes that disrespect is always and totally a failure of training or some sort of karmic justice. It assumes that children's attitudes and judgements are always justified and never wrong or self-absorbed, and have zero influences from peers, society, popular culture, the educational system, etc.
It is the same mindset that, until there was a sea change sometime in the 1990s, commonly suggested that if your child has mental illness that you caused it somehow. It is a very naive and primitive understanding of parent/child dynamics and completely ignores the many other factors in the mix.
You also seem to be burdened with the misconception that just because it is legitimately expected that parents do right by their children that it somehow doing right by them has no value that it's incumbent on adult children to honor and appreciate -- as I did for my parents and, near as I can tell, most of my generation did for theirs as well.
Yes, I AM disappointed in some aspects of how my children turned out despite my best efforts and I would be an uncaring automaton if I weren't disappointed, and a liar to pretend otherwise, and any standards I held them to as children would be demonstrated to have been a pointless sham. You bet I'm disappointed in those aspects and I have every right to be.
How I feel about parenting overall at the end of the process is entirely separate matter from my unconditional love for my children, which has never changed.
Not that children don't sometimes try to manipulate you about these things. My wife dated a guy before she met me, who had two children, one who was exemplary and one who was ... shall we say ... a "black sheep". His "black sheep" claimed he didn't love her as much as her sister. He gently explained to her that he loved them both the same, but he does not treat them the same and does not apologize for treating them differently -- because his CHILDREN TREAT HIM DIFFERENTLY. If Black Sheep wants to be treated like the other child, then emulate the other child. Be respectful, diligent, kind, and all the rest, and you'll find that there will be no problem. (I can imagine some people recoiling in horror from this, thinking it constitutes shaming through comparisons and failing to note what is being compared ... not worthiness, lovability, or personhood, but behavior and attitudes. How I wished I had more fully understood this as a parent!)
Too bad so many parents haven't got that kind of wisdom and healthy boundaries with their children.
But you go ahead and pass your supercilious and unjustified judgments based on no evidence at all other than that you don't like me being honest with my feelings, if you want ... I don't want to hijack this thread having a butt-kicking contest with you about it anyway.
I will say though to the point of the OP, it is clear from this conversation, whatever you think of me or my interlocutor, that parenting is a huge deal that will suck up a lot of time, energy, angst and drama even under the best of circumstances, pretty much forever. As you can see, not only are outcomes with children far from guaranteed, but you will have no shortage of armchair quarterbacking from other people, so-called experts, and even your own children. So I reiterate what this whole subthread started with me saying: the most consequential or "big" decision you will make is the one to become a parent. But don't seek that experience out because you think it will guarantee some illusory sense that you've arrived or secured something in life. It has much to commend it, but also much to encourage you to take your time and consider, in view of the fact that the world has plenty of people in it, the possibility of even taking a pass on it. Be content with smaller rites of passage. That is legitimate too.
Retiring completely after 40 years of work and transitioning from always having some one else to tell you what to do to having complete control over every min of every day.
Of all these significant events the biggest transition was the last RETIREMENT. Everything about your life changes, nothing stays the same.
I am not there yet and, like a lot of people these days, may never get there. But I think the consequentiality of retiring has a lot to do with how much of a life you cultivate outside of work and how much you can continue to enjoy aspects of your work even in retirement. And, of course, whether you are fortunate enough to enjoy your work in the first place.
Retirement is not necessarily about quitting working altogether, but having gaining the ability to be extremely picky about the work you DO take. But also, some vocations can become even more rewarding in retirement if they lend themselves to becoming avocations or sources of charitable giving of one's time.
For example I am a software architect / developer and I can totally imagine "quitting working" and continuing to do as much software development as I wish, and with great relish as I love the problem solving, the design, the creativity, etc. I would just shift to fun / vanity personal projects, or donate my expertise to a non profit, or mentor young people, etc., and keep going. Some professions lend themselves more to this than others, but I think a lot of the "shock" of retirement comes from lack of mental preparation and having good tactics for managing the transition. Your marriage for instance will have settled into a pattern that will be disturbed by you suddenly being home all the time, your children and grandchildren may find it stressful that your'e suddenly so much more present and attentive, etc.
I don't think that retirement HAS to be shock to the system in other words. But if there's a runner up to "becoming a parent" it probably IS "retiring".
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
