I am wondering what are your thoughts on Millennials (boyfriend, dating, woman)
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This issue of wild swings from one extreme to another in parenting styles speaks of a culture that is completely lost in the parenting sphere. These weird trends and counter-trends don't happen in other cultures; people are more grounded in what the child needs, drawing healthy boundaries, etc., generally.
Regarding the Millennial generation, it doesn't make sense to me to blame Boomers, when it was the early Boomers who also raised Gen-X. And nobody complains about Gen-Xers. So there seems to be something more at work, here. Maybe a new parenting book was published during the late Boomers' parenting time? And let's not forget, that early Gen-Xers also raised some of the Millennials.
A lot of generalizing about this really isn't helpful or enlightening. I'm interested in getting down to the nitty-gritty of where the helicopter parenting styles, the over-protective styles, the treat-the-child-as-an-equal-to-adults thing, came from; what generated those? It must have been some new parenting books. And possibly excessive fear about stranger-danger, IDK.
That's what interests me too. I was a teacher and we were told to let the kids decide what they wanted to do that day! Well, anybody knows the answer: play and have recess. We were told to mostly let the kids do whatever they wanted to do because we didn't want to stifle their creativity. Luckily for me, a very wonderful experienced teacher helped me by explaining that it doesn't work that way. Kids need discipline, rules, boundaries. They like that. It makes them feel more secure. They may rebel a bit but mostly when they are young, they want to know the rules and they want to be told what to do. They desire fairness, so if they are bad, they know that they should be punished.
This was about 1970. It was all about permissiveness. But I don't know when it started. Was it Dr Spock?
I thought his book was crazy--way too vague and not too useful.
Over the years, the 80s , 90s, and onward, the parents got crazy and instead of disciplining the kids, they tried to reason with them. I would hear parents making long involved explanations to little kids instead of just saying, NO! Seems that the movement went too far because I started hearing parents censor words from books when they read to the kids. There were words that were not considered politically correct--who decided this, I don't know. Not too long ago I heard a parent reading a book to a kid in a store and it started out with gypsies. The parent was aghast and said something about this being a word we do not use. She made up another word!
Censoring children's books because someone decided that certain words are politically incorrect must be a form of coddling and over protecting--a form of helicopter parenting? Now we even have to protect the little darlings from words! And where did this idea of your kid being your friend come from? Your kid is a younger person who needs a parent, a role model, someone to keep them in line. They'll find friends; the parent will find friends.
Permissiveness has to go. I've seen the results in classrooms because the kids who had no structure or rules at home, tend to be lazy and disruptive. No one taught them how to control themselves because they could get away with anything. So they don't learn well in school, they don't pay attention, they lack the attention span and the self control to apply themselves and do the work.
I could go on and on but I, too, wonder where this idea of helicopter parenting came from and how did parents come to be so lax in raising their kids? Did some book come out on a new kind of parenting?
If you want to understand parents and parenting, just HONESTLY (many folks cannot) examine your parents and how they raised you and, if you are a parent, HONESTLY (many parents cannot do this at all!) examine your own parenting style and methods.
The key here is HONESTY!
? This doesn't address helicoptering and other fringe-y parenting styles that have become popular.
During these last few decades, helicopter parents intertwined their lives with their children’s, overstepping boundaries and robbing their kids of opportunities to problem-solve and (gasp) even fail.
Here's a pretty good article for anyone who's interested. It does look like it may have begun with Dr Spock but also there have been trendy parenting styles and it's gone too far toward permissiveness. I would still like to know more--like who is telling parents to censor books and to censor certain words. Kids can understand that times change and words and ideas that were acceptable at one time may not be so acceptable now. Kids aren't dumb, you don' t have to censor books for little kids. Not for the most part!
That's what interests me too. I was a teacher and we were told to let the kids decide what they wanted to do that day! Well, anybody knows the answer: play and have recess. We were told to mostly let the kids do whatever they wanted to do because we didn't want to stifle their creativity. Luckily for me, a very wonderful experienced teacher helped me by explaining that it doesn't work that way. Kids need discipline, rules, boundaries. They like that. It makes them feel more secure. They may rebel a bit but mostly when they are young, they want to know the rules and they want to be told what to do. They desire fairness, so if they are bad, they know that they should be punished.
This was about 1970. It was all about permissiveness. But I don't know when it started. Was it Dr Spock?
I thought his book was crazy--way too vague and not too useful.
I never read Dr. Spock; I should read his book to see what it says.
I can tell you where that schooling idea came from--to let the kids decide what they want to do. But first, let me ask: were you teaching in a private school, or public? And were all the grades supposed to be run that way, or was that something you were taught while getting your teaching certificate? I need a perspective over this.
Check out the book "Summerhill", that was published in the 60's; it was a radical experiment in education that came up around the second half of the 60's, when traditional education was being challenged. Summerhill school was in the UK, and it pioneered letting kids do anything they wanted; the whole school was run that way. At first, the kids would just play. Then after 2 or 3 months of aimless play, they'd start to get bored, and would want to learn about things; they'd start to ask questions about things they'd observe in the playground. So basic science came into play. And math, when it came to scoring their games. And instruction would evolve from there. I'm told that Waldorf schools are run that way in the earliest grades. I think the big shift in classroom discipline and attire that occurred in the 60's and 70's happened as a result of the new trend toward Progressivism in the schools, lead by Summerhill.
That's what interests me too. I was a teacher and we were told to let the kids decide what they wanted to do that day! Well, anybody knows the answer: play and have recess. We were told to mostly let the kids do whatever they wanted to do because we didn't want to stifle their creativity. Luckily for me, a very wonderful experienced teacher helped me by explaining that it doesn't work that way. Kids need discipline, rules, boundaries. They like that. It makes them feel more secure. They may rebel a bit but mostly when they are young, they want to know the rules and they want to be told what to do. They desire fairness, so if they are bad, they know that they should be punished.
This was about 1970. It was all about permissiveness. But I don't know when it started. Was it Dr Spock?
I thought his book was crazy--way too vague and not too useful.
Over the years, the 80s , 90s, and onward, the parents got crazy and instead of disciplining the kids, they tried to reason with them. I would hear parents making long involved explanations to little kids instead of just saying, NO! Seems that the movement went too far because I started hearing parents censor words from books when they read to the kids. There were words that were not considered politically correct--who decided this, I don't know. Not too long ago I heard a parent reading a book to a kid in a store and it started out with gypsies. The parent was aghast and said something about this being a word we do not use. She made up another word!
Censoring children's books because someone decided that certain words are politically incorrect must be a form of coddling and over protecting--a form of helicopter parenting? Now we even have to protect the little darlings from words! And where did this idea of your kid being your friend come from? Your kid is a younger person who needs a parent, a role model, someone to keep them in line. They'll find friends; the parent will find friends.
Permissiveness has to go. I've seen the results in classrooms because the kids who had no structure or rules at home, tend to be lazy and disruptive. No one taught them how to control themselves because they could get away with anything. So they don't learn well in school, they don't pay attention, they lack the attention span and the self control to apply themselves and do the work.
I could go on and on but I, too, wonder where this idea of helicopter parenting came from and how did parents come to be so lax in raising their kids? Did some book come out on a new kind of parenting?
Okay, I know this thread is about why Millennials are so awful, but if bad parenting skills are the culprit, don't you think that Gen Z is in for trouble, too? I work as a teacher, and I would think so, given the complete lack of respect for authority the younger generation seems to have, but the business people, the ones who labeled my generation as lazy and entitled, don't seem to think so. What are your thoughts on this? Why do people have very different, mostly positive, predictions about the new kids who will shortly be entering the workforce after us? Why are they bending over backwards to help them and prepare them to cope with changes in society when they mostly just considered us a lost cause?
1982 - 2004 seems to be the most common years labeled as Millennials. That is a 22 year span. I find it difficult to encapsulate those born within that time frame as having the same philosophies.
In 2016, if born in 1982 one would turn 34 years old. If born in 2004 they would be 12 years old in 2016. Cannot fathom that a 12 year old and a 34 year old would age with the same mindset.
That goes for any generation. Baby Boomers, supposedly born between 1946 and 1964, that includes people who are between 52 and 70 in 2016. Same scenario because that span of years means that the 52 year old grew up in a different pop culture than the 70 year old.
Perhaps a ten year spread would be more befitting when discussing how one generation differs from another.
As far the the OP's curiosity of other's opinions of Millennials; have worked with them and like any other age group, some are hard workers and some are slackers. I prefer to view each individual as an individual and not label anyone.
1982 - 2004 seems to be the most common years labeled as Millennials. That is a 22 year span. I find it difficult to encapsulate those born within that time frame as having the same philosophies.
In 2016, if born in 1982 one would turn 34 years old. If born in 2004 they would be 12 years old in 2016. Cannot fathom that a 12 year old and a 34 year old would age with the same mindset.
That goes for any generation. Baby Boomers, supposedly born between 1946 and 1964, that includes people who are between 52 and 70 in 2016. Same scenario because that span of years means that the 52 year old grew up in a different pop culture than the 70 year old.
Perhaps a ten year spread would be more befitting when discussing how one generation differs from another.
As far the the OP's curiosity of other's opinions of Millennials; have worked with them and like any other age group, some are hard workers and some are slackers. I prefer to view each individual as an individual and not label anyone.
I agree, but I was born in the 80's, and I can certainly relate to the common plight of most in my cohort, like the high unemployment rate, the difficulty finding jobs, the idea that we are addicted to technology and use it instead of face-to-face interaction, having people several years older than me as coworkers, high student loan debt, deficits in job training, lack of job experience and opportunities to get it, etc.
I never read Dr. Spock; I should read his book to see what it says.
I can tell you where that schooling idea came from--to let the kids decide what they want to do. But first, let me ask: were you teaching in a private school, or public? And were all the grades supposed to be run that way, or was that something you were taught while getting your teaching certificate? I need a perspective over this.
Check out the book "Summerhill", that was published in the 60's; it was a radical experiment in education that came up around the second half of the 60's, when traditional education was being challenged. Summerhill school was in the UK, and it pioneered letting kids do anything they wanted; the whole school was run that way. At first, the kids would just play. Then after 2 or 3 months of aimless play, they'd start to get bored, and would want to learn about things; they'd start to ask questions about things they'd observe in the playground. So basic science came into play. And math, when it came to scoring their games. And instruction would evolve from there. I'm told that Waldorf schools are run that way in the earliest grades. I think the big shift in classroom discipline and attire that occurred in the 60's and 70's happened as a result of the new trend toward Progressivism in the schools, lead by Summerhill.
Oh yes, now I remember reading Summerhill. I think I liked it but I truly cannot remember what my actual opinion was. To answer your questions, I taught in a public school and there was still discipline in the late 60s, early 70s. In fact, the principal used to actually spank the bad kids in the office!
The radical things, like letting the first graders tell ME what they wanted to today, were taught to us in teachers' college. Also, to give them complete freedom to do whatever they wanted to do. It did not work with a classroom of 25-30 kids. Would have been total chaos if that old timey teacher hadn't intervened and set me straight. The kids ADORED that woman. The kids had zero respect for the teachers who set no rules and let them walk all over them.
Kids love teachers who are strict but fair. I heard that over and over. And I saw it too.
Before I have to go and do something else, here's a good article (and amusing) about parenting:
A good parent prepares the child for the path, not the path for the child. We can still demonstrate gentle and attached parenting without raising children who melt on a warm day.
During these last few decades, helicopter parents intertwined their lives with their children’s, overstepping boundaries and robbing their kids of opportunities to problem-solve and (gasp) even fail.
Here's a pretty good article for anyone who's interested. It does look like it may have begun with Dr Spock but also there have been trendy parenting styles and it's gone too far toward permissiveness. I would still like to know more--like who is telling parents to censor books and to censor certain words. Kids can understand that times change and words and ideas that were acceptable at one time may not be so acceptable now. Kids aren't dumb, you don' t have to censor books for little kids. Not for the most part!
A couple years ago I did quite a bit of research into various parenting philosophies across multiple cultures. It's really quite fascinating. AP may seem trendy in Western cultures, but the specific philosophies of AP have existed in other cultures for quite some time. It just became what some call a "trend" when introduced to UMC Western parenting circles. I followed AP before I even knew there was an official philosophy. I followed it because it came natural to me, and these practices were modeled by my own mother. AP works very well for us in the early toddler/preschooler years.
I came across "Dolphin Parenting" when I already employed this philosophy. Just made the most sense to me and what was modeled when I was growing up.
It's difficult to talk about parenting styles and philosophies without involving specific cultural norms and customs, because culture definitely influences these practices. My sister is a millennial, but she isn't like the young adults described by folks here. Also, socioeconomic status/class is another factor.
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Luckily for me, a very wonderful experienced teacher helped me by explaining that it doesn't work that way. Kids need discipline, rules, boundaries. They like that. It makes them feel more secure. They may rebel a bit but mostly when they are young, they want to know the rules and they want to be told what to do. They desire fairness, so if they are bad, they know that they should be punished.
