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I don't like the way 'forgiveness' is tossed around. In my mind to forgive, the person needs to want forgiveness.
I prefer to use the term 'let go'. Let go of resentments and grudges and most definitely take responsibility for your own thoughts and actions. Once you reach the age of majority it's all on you.
Those who like to bemoan their upbringing in order to excuse their bad behavior are not willing to take that responsibility.
Excellent post, I agree! "Let it go and move on from it." I always thought that was a load of crap that one forgives another in order to benefit themselves, a way of enabling the behavior of the other who generally goes on to wrong other people.
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Originally Posted by oldwoman
I don't think forgiveness needs to be earned ... not at all. I do think that an individual must want forgiveness in order to be forgiven. Otherwise, it's just a difference in values.
I have put things behind me without forgiving. The people you think are 'flawed' I see as simply having a different perspective and set of values. It is rarely constructive to show people where they went wrong as they often believe it is you who went wrong. And, in many cases, who's to say who is wrong anyway?
I have let go of resentment many times without forgiving. AND letting go and moving on does not necessarily bring peace or closure.
Agree again. Most of those that are forgiven/enabled for their behavior don't see it as having done anything wrong and are not asking for forgiveness. You make a good point that one would give forgiveness to another who would not accept it having believed they did nothing to be forgiven for.
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Originally Posted by Lovehound
I think it would be a good idea for everybody to compare on a case by case basis, what you have to gain by forgiving vs. what you stand to gain or lose with any other alternative.
Once I started that analysis I realized it was time to get on with the rest of my life and put the past behind me.
I don't have to forgive anyone in order to get on with my life. One lets it go, the anger/resentment/whatever and moves on and does it away from that individual. Forgiving them for one's own sake has to be some sort of psycho babble. Too many people forgive only to be abused again and again by the offender.
While I realize that therapists and counselors sell this kind of thing, I do not believe it is healthy and amounts to "just suck it up and take it".
I think it all stems from the Judaeo/Christian belief in forgiveness. But, the basic root of the word is about one person having 'wronged' another. Now there are many times when, as a society (the majority of people), we decide that something is morally wrong. Like murder or rape. But, there are a lot more times when everyone has a different take on a behavior as right or wrong.
If I do something to hurt you deeply and I don't think I did anything wrong, then where do you get off forgiving me? I don't need to be forgiven since I did nothing wrong. But, you may still be angry with me for what you consider a 'wrong'. Well ..... that's when you can decide if you'd like to hang on to that anger or let it go. Simple.
I don't think forgiveness needs to be earned ... not at all. I do think that an individual must want forgiveness in order to be forgiven. Otherwise, it's just a difference in values.
I have put things behind me without forgiving. The people you think are 'flawed' I see as simply having a different perspective and set of values. It is rarely constructive to show people where they went wrong as they often believe it is you who went wrong. And, in many cases, who's to say who is wrong anyway?
I have let go of resentment many times without forgiving. AND letting go and moving on does not necessarily bring peace or closure.
Letting go of the resentment and forgiving are pretty synonomous in this case...again forgiveness does not even have to involve telling the other person, it has nothing to do with the other person. It's an internal process.
Letting go of the resentment and forgiving are pretty synonomous in this case...again forgiveness does not even have to involve telling the other person, it has nothing to do with the other person. It's an internal process.
Semantics then. I just don't like 'forgiveness' used in this particular way.
Letting go of the resentment and forgiving are pretty synonomous in this case...again forgiveness does not even have to involve telling the other person, it has nothing to do with the other person. It's an internal process.
I do not see them as the same. You forgive another person. I just write them off and forget about them and if they smart, they stay out of my face.
I think that forgiveness too often enables the aggressor to repeat the action, so just write them off and avoid them.
I'm not very forgiving. It's not the part of my personality in proudest of, because people generally find it to be an unappealing trait in the abstract, but it's also not a trait I've ever particularly regretted, either. My lack of a forgiving spirit isn't something that has me seething, embittered, and holding grudges. I just write people off and move on. There are circumstances where I've not found benefit in forgiveness, but have certainly found tremendous benefit in closing the door on it and moving on.
I wouldn't say I have a hard time accepting responsibility for things I do or fail to do, generally, however.
I forgive simply because it's easier to get along with the rest of my life by getting closure on my hard feelings. Not a believer, but raised in the Christian church, this is one of their tenets that I understand, maybe not as any commandment but rather just a simple means of getting the poison out of your mind and moving on to live a great life, past misbegotten deeds left behind.
This is a really difficult thing for me. I think I've forgiven (or at least forgotten) everyone who I feel wronged me in the past EXCEPT my ex-wife. Yes, I'm finally over her, but there's a hole in my heart where a family should have been. I haven't forgiven her because I feel robbed of that. I know my life went in a direction I never would have imagined or wanted after she left. Therefore, I don't think I'll ever feel totally fulfilled because I have no family. There's an emptiness there. While I take responsibility for my role in the divorce and am a different man now, I still can't forgive her. She now has a child with someone else. That was like a knife to my heart when I found out. The good news is I never have to see her again. The bad news is I still remember.
This is a really difficult thing for me. I think I've forgiven (or at least forgotten) everyone who I feel wronged me in the past EXCEPT my ex-wife. Yes, I'm finally over her, but there's a hole in my heart where a family should have been. I haven't forgiven her because I feel robbed of that. I know my life went in a direction I never would have imagined or wanted after she left. Therefore, I don't think I'll ever feel totally fulfilled because I have no family. There's an emptiness there.
I have a parallel, what happened to the woman I was going to marry and have children with. I was betrayed by my best friend who talked her into dating him, but I accidentally ran into them together. Long story short I never spoke to my "friend" again. I tried to make a second go with the GF but it never worked out. I was the one who decided to break up with her. Having no woman is better than having one you can't trust. (Same goes for both genders.) I never met a woman I loved that much ever again. Never was willing to settle for second best. I just have relationships now. Maybe one day I'll meet the woman I want to spend the rest of my life with but too old to have children now.
I totally forgave her. Women in their 20s (and men too) have silly notions. Not her fault for being immature at that age. Can't say I forgave my BFF as much as just decided to not think about him any more. All I feel now when thinking of him is an emotional deadness.
There's an amusing end to my story. My BFF had problems with women, was seeing a shrink. Had troubles meeting and dating them. I neglected to say actually we were a trio of BFFs, and our mutual BFF told me the rest of the story. My cheating BFF and XGF tried to have sex sometime later, and our mutual BFF told me they couldn't complete the act! He was unable to achieve an erection! I laughed and laughed and laughed over that one! I don't know or care whatever happened to either one of them these days.
That's what I have been trying to express in my posts in this topic. Don't dwell on the past. Don't be a hater. Don't let animosity poison your mind. Get on with your life and let the past be the past.
I rarely think of this story but to be honest, when I do I sometimes chuckle!
I don't like the way 'forgiveness' is tossed around. In my mind to forgive, the person needs to want forgiveness.
I prefer to use the term 'let go'. Let go of resentments and grudges and most definitely take responsibility for your own thoughts and actions. Once you reach the age of majority it's all on you.
Those who like to bemoan their upbringing in order to excuse their bad behavior are not willing to take that responsibility.
You are not hurting the person you hold a grudge against when you don't forgive him or her. You are allowing him or her to take up residence in your mind, spewing poison into your psyche. I think it is best to forgive whenever possible.
I do not think it is our place to forgive people who have done wrong to other people. I certainly would never try to forgive someone who affected another person's life in a horrible way. That is not my job. But if the person has affected me, then it is best to forgive. I do wrestle with forgiveness if I were to be seriously hurt, or damaged by someone. I am not sure I could totally forgive this. But generally, it is best to forgive people when they do stuff to you, whenever you can.
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"Let it go and move on from it." I always thought that was a load of crap that one forgives another in order to benefit themselves, a way of enabling the behavior of the other who generally goes on to wrong other people.
I don't know or care whatever happened to either one of them these days.
