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I haven't read the whole thread, but I think there's a lot of reasons that people can be habitually late. That doesn't necessarily excuse it, but it may be helpful to try and figure out exactly what the reason is. Maybe you can help her with it.
For one thing, in the most common American cultures it is considered rude and disrespectful to be late. In some other cultures, especially Latin, it is not. In many of those cultures it is considered more rude to be annoyed, put-out, or unsympathetic toward someone being late than it is to actually be late. In those cultures, if you say you'll be somewhere at 5 and you arrive at 5:10 or 5:15 you're considered on time. Manana means "not today" more than it means "tomorrow".
Some people are simply bad or overly optimistic at estimating how long it takes them to do things. If everything goes perfectly - they hit no lights, there's no traffic or cops, they don't need gas or an ATM, etc. - they're actually on time, but how often does everything go perfectly?
Similar to the above, some people estimate their times based on how fast they used to be able to do things, or how quickly they did them once or twice. My wife falls into this category. She used to be able to put on makeup in 5-10 minutes. That was when she had the area all to herself with the makeup already out. Now she has to share the bathroom and the closet with me while getting ready and dealing with a toddler running around making a mess of things. I haven't seen her put her makeup on in less than 20 minutes in a while, but she still thinks she can pull it off even though we have to leave in 5 minutes.
Other people have their day so crammed full of stuff that if any one thing runs late or has an issue it throws off everything else in a domino effect. This is my problem. I have a friend who's always on time, always composed, prepared etc. He's able to do this because he doesn't have many responsibilities. The stuff he completes in a "very productive day" are things that I'm getting done by 10 am on an average day. He budgets himself an amount of time, and padding around that time, that I am simply unable to.
Some people easily get lost in their own world and lose track of time despite their best intentions. I have this problem as well. It gets exacerbated by the type of work I do (computer programming), but is always an issue even without that. My mind is almost always off somewhere else solving some problem, planning something, or doing something creative. It's the way I'm wired. (Myers Briggs INTP if you care)
There's all kinds of other reasons too, beyond simply being a rude or self-centered person that considers themselves more important than others. Though that is obviously a common issue as well. I think you should try to get to the bottom of what her issue is and see if you can either help her cope with it, or come to accept it yourself. If not, you need to move on.
Also, none of these excuse consistently being 90 minutes late or causing you to miss a cruise, especially if she knew you prepaid and were looking forward to it for a long time. If she was going to be this late, for any reason, if she really cared about you she would have called to let you know she was going to be that late and suggested you at least go on the cruise yourself and she'll make it up to you somehow when you get back.
A woman I've dated for 6 months is consistently late for everything and underestimates the passage of time, not just with me, but with everyone. I on the other hand, am very perceptive of the passage of time.
If I say I'll meet someone in 15 minutes, I will be there in 14 minutes and 59 seconds. If I make a reservation or appointment with someone at 11:30, I will be there exactly as the clock strikes 11:30.
In the entire time I've known her, she has only been on time once. I've noticed a trend too, she underestimates time by a multiple of 3. So for example if she says 5 minutes I can anticipate 15 minutes, if she says 1 hour, I can anticipate her in 3 hours, etc.
I've come to accept that this is how she is for our meetings, but it makes my blood boil when we are late for dinners/meetings/appointments with other people, sometimes by 30-90 minutes or more!
When we missed a cruise I was looking forward to all year because she was late I nearly broke up with her on the spot.
It's a very cavalier approach and just shows a lack of thought and consideration on her part mate
And with the missed cruise in mind you're a better bloke than me
Greeks are always late for appointments and this also is known as being on 'Greek Time'. They say that the reason is because nobody wants to be the first one to arrive and have to wait for the other people because then he is a fool. So everyone comes late and the people who come first, even if they are late, may leave again and come back when someone else is there, which means that unless 2 people show up at the same time the meeting will never happen.
So if you are meeting someone and they are not there yet, sit down and wait for them and they will show up, most of the time. Aggravated Greek Time is when you are at a concert or performance and they delay it because some Government minister is late.
African time or Africa time is the perceived cultural tendency, in parts of Africa and the Caribbean toward a more relaxed attitude to time. This is sometimes used in a pejorative sense, about tardiness in appointments, meetings and events.
Just a comment, it is interesting that Navajo time seems to be similar to African time.
More and more I kind of like Navajo time. Remember that a few hundred years ago the Navajo had no concept of daily time except in terms of sun angle, in terms of season, in terms of hunting and gathering seasons, celebrations, much the same as all Native American tribes.
The equinoxes and solstices were very important. Time of day, clocks? Meh. Hadn't been invented except by pale faces who wanted/needed to cut up their daily time into smaller and smaller slivers, until each sliver meant nothing.
This is my viewpoint today. I live my days with little reference to clocks. Clocks are for TV. I care little about TV. Unfortunately have to condone doctor's and dentist's schedules, and billing dates due.
Somehow I get the feeling we have become dehumanized by the clock and the calendar.
Divide your life up into such small slices that eventually any/every slice means nothing. Add them all up and your life means nothing.
Just a comment, it is interesting that Navajo time seems to be similar to African time.
It's pretty much the same for every culture; "Native" time, "Black" time, "Island time"...it's all the same, because that's how life in the natural world works. Meaning, how it worked before the westerners got their hands on it and distorted everything. Time, as a thing in itself, is a man-made construct. In the natural world, and in native cultures, it is a measure of things, not a thing itself. So yeah, living by the clock is unnatural.
I have the same problem. Maybe I also have ADD...probably also anxiety and ocd, which the stress of meeting someone can exacerbate. So I have to work to try to be on-time, and start getting ready a lot earlier than I think I need to. My mom was always late too, and it used to **** me off when I was younger, because whenever she would have to take me to school, or my own birthday party, I would be late, and annoyed and embarrassed, because of course, I thought they would think I was the one that was late and that I just liked the attention or something. The funny thing is, it annoyed my Dad too, and he said he knew he wasn't going to work out because she was always late, and wanted to break up with her, then one day she showed up with some news about a family issue, and he figured well can't break up with her now. Then my brother came along, and it was too late then... :/
With OCD, which IS an anxiety disorder, it can be hard to leave the house. The other day, I was half a mile when I realized I could not specifically recall turning off and unplugging the coffeemaker. I thought I did, but then the images of my house burning and my cats dying became too strong, and I turned around and went back home to check. Of course, the coffeemaker was unplugged. I had given myself extra time to get to my appointment, so it was OK.
I am a person who was often late but got better. It took a lot of effort. Besides the need to check things and deal with intrusive thoughts when under stress, I just used to consistently underestimate how long it took to do things. I feel as if I am in the shower ten minutes, but 25 passes. It still shocks me sometimes. I look at the clock and stop to do one thing that I think takes 2 minutes, and when I look again 10 minutes have passed.
I just had to accept that I need to build in extra time when I have to be somewhere, and that has worked. Another part is learning to wait. My goal was never to be late, but also not to have to wait for other people. If I got somewhere 5 minutes early and no one else was ready to start, I felt as If I could have used that 5 minutes to do something else at home, and now it was wasted. That was a change I had to make in thinking. Every minute does not have to be put to some use. It's ok sometimes to just wait and do nothing.
^yep, I think I have some of that too. And the thing people don't realize, is when you already have anxiety and are ocd-ish and, and getting somewhere and being on time are issues, when you get stressed out, it just makes it worse, because you have to try to calm down so you can actually do things...so there are a lot of factors, and it helps to realize what they are, and minimize stress. I'm the same with showers too, I've always taken long showers. When I was younger, I'd say I'm going in the shower, and then I'd come out, and they'd be like, "you were in there an hour" and I'd be like, really? Didn't seem that long... But I think that's also because if something's relaxing and enjoyable, you want to spend more time and probably lose track of time. But now, I realize that I just take long showers. And I would take them at night, because they're relaxing, but now, if I take them during the day and have to be somewhere, I'll take a clock in, so I can keep track of time. And I try to be more realistic, and start getting ready earlier, so I'll think, well if I start getting ready 2 hours before I have to leave, and I don't wash my hair, then that'll only take half as much time, so I should be on time...but then I underestimate how long it takes to dry off and get dressed, etc...so, like anything, it just takes practice.
Personally, I would just leave or at least not answer the door if the person is more than 15 minutes late. I've had friends who have been constantly late like that...really late (1-3 hours). I started leaving without them. Later, they called and wanted to know where I was. I told the two different people that my time was valuable too, and I was no longer going to wait for them to arrive in a timely manner.
I discussed it with our staff psychologist at the place where I work because it was really bugging me. He said that it is a control problem. He said some people lack self-control, while other people are really subconsciously trying to control both you and the situation. One of the people corrected her behavior (at least to a great extent). The other person, I totally dropped as a "friend."
What does the cruise being prepaid have to do with this?
If "she" had been just a bit more tardy the boat would have left without them, and lost all the money they paid. Doesn't that make almost missing the cruise a lot worse a sin?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bikegal
It's pretty much the same for every culture; "Native" time, "Black" time, "Island time"...it's all the same, because that's how life in the natural world works. Meaning, how it worked before the westerners got their hands on it and distorted everything. Time, as a thing in itself, is a man-made construct. In the natural world, and in native cultures, it is a measure of things, not a thing itself. So yeah, living by the clock is unnatural.
This is why I won't wear a watch. Clocks are evil devices that slice up time into ever smaller pieces until you reach the point that each individual piece is worthless. That's IMO the tyranny of clocks. Admittedly I have them in my home, car, cellphone, but for some reason it just gives me the shivers to have one strapped to my body. Might as well implant the damned thing in my head! -- I'm usually on time because I know the current time, know the travel time, and/or appointment is indefinite enough that +/- is no big deal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801
With OCD, which IS an anxiety disorder, it can be hard to leave the house. The other day, I was half a mile when I realized I could not specifically recall turning off and unplugging the coffeemaker. I thought I did, but then the images of my house burning and my cats dying became too strong, and I turned around and went back home to check. Of course, the coffeemaker was unplugged. I had given myself extra time to get to my appointment, so it was OK.
I have a small bit of OCD (but mostly anxiety). I left for a week vacation and when I returned I discovered my Mr. Coffee was still switched on! Luckily they are designed to not burn anything no matter how long left on. But leave a pot of coffee switched on and I guarantee the carafe will be unusable when you return. Given the cost you toss the whole thing and buy a new one. I had cleaned the carafe and left it in drying rack before departing.
My thing is getting a mile away and then worrying that I didn't lock the patio door. Cellphone? Depends on how much time I have and how far to return to home. There's an anxiety of its own, that feeling you have when you left your cell behind and you're totally out of contact. It's funny that ~25 years ago we didn't have them, being out of contact didn't matter. A few of us had pagers. Heh, a few younger members may not know what a pager is/was.
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But I think that's also because if something's relaxing and enjoyable, you want to spend more time and probably lose track of time. But now, I realize that I just take long showers. And I would take them at night, because they're relaxing, but now, if I take them during the day and have to be somewhere, I'll take a clock in, so I can keep track of time. And I try to be more realistic, and start getting ready earlier, so I'll think, well if I start getting ready 2 hours before I have to leave, and I don't wash my hair, then that'll only take half as much time, so I should be on time...but then I underestimate how long it takes to dry off and get dressed, etc...so, like anything, it just takes practice.
