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Old 03-08-2017, 01:05 PM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,300 posts, read 84,311,090 times
Reputation: 114647

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TabulaRasa View Post
It's not one size fits all.

Generally speaking, if you are committed to learning about and working on mental health, and taking proactive steps to address issues you are having (which may or may not include therapy), you are likely to see improvement. Finding a provider who is a good fit is also part of the process.

People who don't are often people who enter in with attitudes that they, personally, won't need to work on or change anything themselves, and/or that mental health professionals are either auto mechanics who will tinker and fix things for them, or magicians who will just wave a wand, and, poof, things are fixed.

Most of the work of therapy is done under one's own steam, and desire to understand and make appropriate changes.
Well said.

We aren't that complicated. You aren't special or different from the rest of the human race. A good therapist will be able to see very quickly in you what you yourself cannot see, and will gently guide you to peeling off the layers until you can see yourself better.

When the AHA! moments come, it is great, but don't fool yourself thinking you will get there pain-free. There's no under, over, or around. The only way is through. But after you go through--there is strength you didn't have before.
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Old 03-08-2017, 01:09 PM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,300 posts, read 84,311,090 times
Reputation: 114647
Quote:
Originally Posted by MillennialUrbanist View Post
My experience was pretty negative too. The difference was that I did therapy as a kid, so "flirting" wasn't even in the equation. But the "didn't believe me" part was exactly the same. The therapist would ask me: "How did this-and-that make you feel?" I'd give an answer. The therapist would turn around and say: "No, that's not what you felt."

Now, how do you respond to that?
Ask yourself if she has a point. She may be seeing anger that you are denying, for example.

That IS the reason we need therapy, ya know--because we lie to ourselves about what we really feel, sometimes because we were taught we "shouldn't" feel that way.

I never knew a therapist to say that so bluntly, though.

ETA: I subsequently saw that your experience was as a child. Perhaps that was part of the reason. I don't know.

Last edited by Mightyqueen801; 03-08-2017 at 01:24 PM..
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Old 03-08-2017, 01:35 PM
 
Location: Western U.S.
375 posts, read 294,986 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
Ask yourself if she has a point. She may be seeing anger that you are denying, for example.

That IS the reason we need therapy, ya know--because we lie to ourselves about what we really feel, sometimes because we were taught we "shouldn't" feel that way.

I never knew a therapist to say that so bluntly, though.

ETA: I subsequently saw that your experience was as a child. Perhaps that was part of the reason. I don't know.
The reason you never heard a therapist say that the reason we all need therapy is because we lie to ourselves about how we feel is because that is a false claim.

To lie to yourself about your true feelings, is, at it's basic form, simply denial.

And while true that living in a constant state of denial CAN cause deleterious choices and impinge upon one's quality of life, that is far from the only reason people seek and often need therapy.

Cognitive misconceptions is an equally common reason, for example. It's not so much that people deny what they feel, it is rather that they KNOW they are feeling depressed or anxious, or in some other way "sub-par", but they cannot discern as to why, exactly. It may be due to a chemical imbalance in the brain, or a sub-optimal combination of certain neurotransmitters. Brain chemicals, to put it in layman's terms. Like Serotonin or dopamine.

Or, going back to cognitive distortions, they simply are beset with maladaptive coping strategies. Or their lines of reasoning are skewed, either from experience or from being taught by bad examples as children.

So I think it would be more accurate to say that more people seek therapy because they are confused as to why the feel a certain way, rather than to claim they are in denial of how they feel.

Hope this helps.

Thanks..



ps...if you have not done so already you should read my OP in this thread on Cognitive Therapy; it is the primary school in which I engage with my client. LS
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Old 03-08-2017, 04:20 PM
 
6,082 posts, read 4,444,164 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovehound View Post
That is just not true.

Often a psychologist (Psy.D degree) can do better than a psychiatrist (M.D. + psychology degree), or a counselor (M.A. degree) better than either.

What sucks are your statistics. More "professional" does not mean better. A good practitioner at one level may be better than a bad practitioner at a higher level.

The main difference between a psychologist and psychiatrist is a psychologist cannot prescribe drugs. In this case they work with your family doctor to get your meds.
Lovehound, you read me wrong. I did say a psychiatrist is equivalent to a psychopharmacologist (who writes scrips). I didn't say they were more professional than a psychologist. I think if you want therapy, a psychologist is the way to go. If you need meds, your psychologist can work with either your MD or a psychiatrist (who will certainly have some insight if your problems are based on true mental illness).
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Old 03-08-2017, 04:46 PM
 
Location: SoCal
14,530 posts, read 20,056,677 times
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If I made any mistake in my understanding of the discussion then I apologize. It seems my reading comprehension is suffering from the many bad posts I read so often. Particularly those ones with 100+ lines and no paragraphs!!! It's driving me crazy!

My own suggestion is the same: start with a clinical psychologist with Psy.D degree, and if meds are indicated then coordinate with family M.D.

I see no reason for a psychologist to need to get a psychiatrist to prescribe unless the family doctor won't. A psychologist is likely going to cost the patient a lot more than their family doctor.

Besides, it's in vogue now for family doctors to hand out anti-depressants and all sorts of drugs intended to treat mental problems. I freak out at the idea that some people, some DOCTORS, think that some magic prescription is going to fix a patient's mental health issues. That is patently ridiculous. Yet it's also common. That's one reason doctors are sometimes called the pejorative "pill pushers."

I have no statistics but I suspect most M.D.s would cooperate with their patient's Psy.D and prescribe anything within reason requested by the psychologist.
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Old 03-08-2017, 04:51 PM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,300 posts, read 84,311,090 times
Reputation: 114647
Quote:
Originally Posted by LAX Star View Post
The reason you never heard a therapist say that the reason we all need therapy is because we lie to ourselves about how we feel is because that is a false claim.

To lie to yourself about your true feelings, is, at it's basic form, simply denial.

And while true that living in a constant state of denial CAN cause deleterious choices and impinge upon one's quality of life, that is far from the only reason people seek and often need therapy.

Cognitive misconceptions is an equally common reason, for example. It's not so much that people deny what they feel, it is rather that they KNOW they are feeling depressed or anxious, or in some other way "sub-par", but they cannot discern as to why, exactly. It may be due to a chemical imbalance in the brain, or a sub-optimal combination of certain neurotransmitters. Brain chemicals, to put it in layman's terms. Like Serotonin or dopamine.

Or, going back to cognitive distortions, they simply are beset with maladaptive coping strategies. Or their lines of reasoning are skewed, either from experience or from being taught by bad examples as children.

So I think it would be more accurate to say that more people seek therapy because they are confused as to why the feel a certain way, rather than to claim they are in denial of how they feel.

Hope this helps.

Thanks..



ps...if you have not done so already you should read my OP in this thread on Cognitive Therapy; it is the primary school in which I engage with my client. LS
Thanks. I realize what I said was greatly oversimplified. But I do think many of us don't correctly identify what we are feeling, or, like me, learn to bury/squash what I learned were unacceptable feelings, which then backfires into problems.

I have a friend who is very short-tempered and bristles easily, yet she will tell you that she's rarely angry. To everyone else, she seems angry often. And she's quick to point out other people as unnecessarily angry. It's somewhat amusing that she doesn't see herself that way.
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Old 03-08-2017, 04:55 PM
 
Location: SoCal
14,530 posts, read 20,056,677 times
Reputation: 10539
People with problems are not the best people to be the judge of problems, particularly their own. You know it's time to go see a psychologist when the psychological pain of living exceeds your ability to handle it and recognize you need help. Too many people refuse to seek help even when they need it.
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Old 03-08-2017, 04:59 PM
 
Location: Middle America
37,409 posts, read 53,418,348 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dizzybint View Post
and make loads of cash for the therapist...isnt it they plant the seed that you cant do it on your own an need that hour with them once a week, surely talking with a good friend would give better results than some screwball con artist. who sometimes can cause more misery than help.
Not really, here.

I know you're not in the U.S. and live in a country that has governmentally-provided healthcare, but in the U.S., if you are a provider taking private insurance, you will get paid for a capped number of sessions, because there are limits to the number than many insurers will reimburse for. For this reason, therapists are actually under more pressure to rush therapy and encapsulate as much as possible into fewer sessions than drag it out.

It's also a large reason for a notable increase in those specializing in a theory of counseling that's not been touched on yet in this thread, called brief solutions-focused therapy, pioneered and developed by de Shazer and Berg, that is designed to address particular problems in a very compressed fashion compared to some other theories of counseling (of which there are many, though only a few, like CBT, and classic Freudian psychoanalysis - which is about as outmoded as doctors doing housecalls with a black bag and head mirror, but people seem to think it's common -have mentioned on here).
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Old 03-08-2017, 05:03 PM
 
Location: SoCal
14,530 posts, read 20,056,677 times
Reputation: 10539
Not all insurance caps mental healthcare treatment, although I suspect all limit it to one visit per week. And that's a standard 50 minute "hour" LOL.

Although after 50 minutes of talking to nuts I sympathize with a psychologist needing 10 minutes before the next one walks in!
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Old 03-08-2017, 05:37 PM
 
Location: Middle America
37,409 posts, read 53,418,348 times
Reputation: 53067
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovehound View Post
People with problems are not the best people to be the judge of problems, particularly their own. You know it's time to go see a psychologist when the psychological pain of living exceeds your ability to handle it and recognize you need help. Too many people refuse to seek help even when they need it.
To a point...but everyone has problems. Mental health professionals, included...self-care and proper stress management are key for anybody working in the field, and nobody is immune to mental health concerns.

But, no, nobody who's unstable themselves should ethically be treating anyone, which is spelled out in all professional conduct codes.
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