Just watched Fair Haven (a movie about conversion therapy) (dating, father, marriage)
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All I can say is to just tough it out as best as you can, then move to a big metropolitan area like I live in, most of which are GLBT friendly.
I'm a heterosexual man, but I feel deprived by not knowing any gays. I used to have a gay best friend, I lost contact and think he committed suicide. (He was a chicken hawk and that was somewhat uncomfortable for me because some of his partners were under age.) All I ever ask from gays is to not make out in front of me. Save that for your bedroom. None of my gay friends ever minded my request. I didn't make out with chicks in front of them either. Sauce for the goose, sauce for the gander I say.
I'd be more than happy to have some gay or lesbian friends. I've always found them to be troubled people but what I like about gays is they are more open and less apt to hide the truth, and are not generally judgemental. (They live in glass houses and know to not throw rocks.) Plus they have some very interesting and entertaining stories to share!
And trust me, nobody gay wants to convert straight people to gayness. The subject never came up. "I'm straight, you're gay, let's talk about something else." Really they have some interesting stories!
My life has been enriched by GLBT people I've known. I wish I had some gay friends now but I don't.
Question: should gay people have gay pets? LOLOLOL!!!
That's one way of looking at it. Or, you could say that your turmoil is coming from being a slave to your sexual desires. I realize that "be yourself" is a powerful message, but are you willing to grant the possibility that your parents, Christianity, and conservative society might not be wrong?
An analogy for me would be, suppose I (a married man) meet a woman and become insanely attracted to her. What are my choices? I can run off with her, and face the negative consequences from my parents, Christianity, and conservative society (not to mention my wife!), or I can choose through an act of will to remain faithful to my wife and to what I believe, and not pursue anything with this hypothetical other woman. Neither option is easy. And if I forego the "other woman," I may spend a lifetime wondering what it would have been like to be with her. (You had a year to satisfy your cravings, so you can always enjoy the memories.) But there is right and wrong in this world, and it's better to choose what's right. Also, it's better to be in control of your emotions, rather than let them be in control of you.
Alternatively, move out in three years and do it your way. But be prepared to face the consequences.
With all due respect, busman, the correct analogy for you would be to be told that your attraction to women or more to the point, your wife, is an abomination and you will burn in hell if you don't immediately change your attraction to men. What would you do? Do you really think you could pull that off? That is what it is like for a gay person -- very few choose to be gay, and science has proven that, in most cases, homosexuality is something a person is born with, it is a chemical/physical issue in the brain...I could go on with this train of thought, mentioning that all fetuses are female at first, and cite all the many things that happen before birth which change the outcome for that child, but I won't. God made this young man, and God loves him just like he is. It is between him and God for him to decide how he wants to proceed, but it is my belief that this old-testament condemnation of homosexuality is abomination. We don't condemn people who eat shellfish, who cut their hair, etc. etc. etc. from Leviticus, but we are quick to tell certain segments of people that they must change who they were born to be.
OP, I am very sorry about your plight. I would like to offer you this: perhaps you went back in the closet at a time when, had you not done so, perhaps you might have been hurt, emotionally or physically, by a situation that your "re-closeting" prevented...I don't think there are many coincidences...but that again is for another conversation. What I hope for you is that you will make peace with who you are -- I have known of people who begged God all their lives to change them...I cannot believe that this is what God would have you do when it is He that made you and He who loves you...I pray that you can find a way to embrace who you are, take care of your financial business at hand and that by your very presence and actions, and hopefully a loving and forgiving heart, your parents can see that you are the same person, the same child they always had, no matter who you come to love. Blessings to you and best wishes for a positive outcome to your story...don't give up, you may not feel like it but you are still young.
And by the way, I am a believer in and follower of Jesus...I hesitate to call myself a Christian anymore because of the heinous behaviors of so many who embrace that title without embracing the Spirit of that path.
Please educate yourself -- you can't deal with your ignorance with dignity.
Actually the post you quoted was ignorant and prejudiced beyond all recognition. I'm surprised in this day and age that somebody could be so narrow minded. Must be some sort of religiously brainwashed bigot.
Some people just come wired that way (GLBT), or learn it in their early year (about 3 years old) when the personality forms. I bet a lot of gays would change to hetero if it was just a voluntary thing, just to avoid the hassle.
Personally I'm glad for gays. Many of them are interesting people, different from me, but good friend material for non-bigots.
Hey what if you were born Black? You tried to become White but it just didn't work. So finally you decide to just give up and let your inner Black come out? It's almost like that, except you can't see it from the outside. BTW I've had some Black friends too, also interesting people. I don't meet many Blacks these days but if I met any interesting ones I'd be happy to be friends with them.
In the words of Rodney King: "Why can't we all just get along?"
OP- Wherever you are, there you be. Be well and Be willing to embrace your true essences.
Glad the movie hit a note for you.
...your natural inclinations remain.
Its not my place to accept or deny your sexual habits.....Just know that, when the casket closes, in folks lives...most don't identify with what their orientation was...They just felt blessed for the experiences and contributions they made to the community.
With all due respect, busman, the correct analogy for you would be to be told that your attraction to women or more to the point, your wife, is an abomination and you will burn in hell if you don't immediately change your attraction to men. What would you do? Do you really think you could pull that off? That is what it is like for a gay person -- very few choose to be gay, and science has proven that, in most cases, homosexuality is something a person is born with, it is a chemical/physical issue in the brain...I could go on with this train of thought, mentioning that all fetuses are female at first, and cite all the many things that happen before birth which change the outcome for that child, but I won't. God made this young man, and God loves him just like he is. It is between him and God for him to decide how he wants to proceed, but it is my belief that this old-testament condemnation of homosexuality is abomination. We don't condemn people who eat shellfish, who cut their hair, etc. etc. etc. from Leviticus, but we are quick to tell certain segments of people that they must change who they were born to be.
OP, I am very sorry about your plight. I would like to offer you this: perhaps you went back in the closet at a time when, had you not done so, perhaps you might have been hurt, emotionally or physically, by a situation that your "re-closeting" prevented...I don't think there are many coincidences...but that again is for another conversation. What I hope for you is that you will make peace with who you are -- I have known of people who begged God all their lives to change them...I cannot believe that this is what God would have you do when it is He that made you and He who loves you...I pray that you can find a way to embrace who you are, take care of your financial business at hand and that by your very presence and actions, and hopefully a loving and forgiving heart, your parents can see that you are the same person, the same child they always had, no matter who you come to love. Blessings to you and best wishes for a positive outcome to your story...don't give up, you may not feel like it but you are still young.
And by the way, I am a believer in and follower of Jesus...I hesitate to call myself a Christian anymore because of the heinous behaviors of so many who embrace that title without embracing the Spirit of that path.
Thanks for this post. I agree with your analogy. Most Christians who think they are being compassionate try to compare the Christian prohibition on homosexuality with the prohibition on heterosexual lust outside of marriage, but it's really two different animals. Heterosexuals can be open about who they are without fear and they are free to fall in love and marry the person that they love. Homosexuals are finally free in this country by law to do the same, but fundamentalist Christians are seeking at every turn to deny LGBT people that right. They want people like me to live life completely alone and completely ashamed of themselves, going day to day living an act just to make them comfortable. Who are they to demand that?
You make a good point about my "re-closeting" and situations that it may have prevented. I was not a mature person back then and to be honest, my life had spiraled a little out of control. I had a lot I was dealing with because of my upbringing in addition to my sexuality. It wasn't until around 30 that I actually started to come to terms with how toxic my upbringing was...even in ways not related to my sexuality. I finally started to discover that it was possible and I was allowed to have a different worldview than my parents. Since then, I've gained so much confidence I can't imagine going back to where I was two years ago. This is why coming out again is finally starting to become an option. I am wanting to make progress on this situation before my 32nd birthday in August. That doesn't mean I am not still very scared of what I will initially have to go through when my parents find out. The good news is I have learned from the mistakes I made back in 2009-10.
First, I am not going to argue with them from a pro-gay Christian perspective. I did that last time and it only made things worse and gave them an opening to manipulate me. Second, I am not going to let my life spiral out of control. I will experience much freedom when I first jump into the LGBT world, but I need to maintain my responsibility and independence. In 2009, I was shutting down the gay bars on work nights, sometimes 5 nights per week, and that was not a good thing to do, for both my career and my social life. In essence, I was trying to make up for not having been able to live the carefree life during college and it came back to bite me. I ended up getting me fired from my job, something I don't want to have to go through again. With freedom comes responsibility, and as long as I maintain responsibility, regardless of how difficult things get with my parents, I will have a much more fulfilling life on the other side.
OP, you write often about not being able to move, but I think that you need to. I can't offer you a path forward though; you have to find your own path.
If you must stay in OK, then find the gay community there. I know there is a gay community in OKC. There are gay communities everywhere.
Many of your posts deal with your fears. You fear coming out to your parents. You fear being discovered as gay in your workplace. I wonder, frankly, why you tied yourself down to onerous car payments when you seemed to desperately need to move.
Now you write about being afraid of God because you are gay. You are gay because, probably, of physiological processes that took place in utero. This is something that you just are. If this is the way "God made you" how can he be displeased with you being the way you are?
I truly feel sorry for you. But the answer to your problems lies with you. You say you cannot move, but I wonder if you could not find a path forward in another place. I wonder why you won't come out to your parents. I wonder why you won't seek out other gay friends. I fear for your well being, I really do. But the answer you need is within you.
It truly amazes me that some human beings claim to "know his laws and rules" and, in a subtle way, indicate that not holding up to certain fundamentalist beliefs means you will be struck down.
I know MANY non-Christians who are very happy all the time. I know many Christians who have horrible situations, including suicide, in their families. I suppose the answer to that is "God works in mysterious ways".....
Well - basic reason and logic would dictate that he can't work under a strict set of rules AND also work in mysterious ways that don't measure up to the promised rewards!
I can't believe we are discussing ancient superstitions as if they are reality. Reality is that Trump, the Christian, probably had sex with MANY underage women and has a list of other sins that would require th hiring of a new "Devil Department" just to list them out and grade them! His punishment? Billions of dollars and being elected POTUS.
Given that, the OP will probably end up in a higher position that Warren Buffet and Bill Gates put together with the Pope and Mother Theresa.
It's one thing to find comfort in words or scripture - quite another to think some dude is keeping score and ready to "smote" individuals who dance suggestively (that's gotta be a big sin).
Money or no money I'd get out of that one horse town. Those 3 years could make a big difference. Maybe yu can find a boyfriend who will be understanding and help a little more financially until you get more on your feet?
Homosexuality has been a BIG part of almost every advanced civilization since the beginning of time. The Greeks and Romans who gave us the modern world. Loving a Man is a easy thing to see - given the historical capabilities of males (the world has been male centered since the beginning of time). Having love for Louis Pasteur would seem a lot more mature than the same for some buxom gold digger from the streets of Paris.
I am straight and have no interest in homosexuality. At the same time we have entered a new world in the last 100 years - one where we do things for fun, entertainment, satisfaction, experimentation and other reasons.....a world which hardly existed previously due to our fight(s) for survival.
This being the case we have to make it up while we go. Personally, I am waiting on the top of the line orgasmatron and hope it arrives quite soon.
There have been several good posts. This is one of them.
I can't think of anything more I can add except that I am sick, sick, sick of people who have prejudices against GLBT, races, religions, colors, nationalities, genders. We are all just humans.
Being GLBT is not a problem, except for bigoted people.
I'm a straight white guy but I'll be happy to make friends with all of the above (except bigots). You can never have too many friends.
GLBT is not a disorder or disease. There is nothing that needs to be fixed, except bigoted prejudice against GLBT.
I know this isn't PC, but I don't believe in Gay anything and I'm not a bit religious. You're born Male or Female. Period. Deal with it with Dignity.
Gay men are still male. Gay women are still female. What's your point?
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