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So, a grown man with responsibilities is not suppose to have, and enjoy these luxury items?
Interesting.
BTW: Love the cheap shot on the POTUS.
I don't think the OP was implying that it's immature to enjoy those things, period - if they did, well, they're wrong. It's that spending inordinate amounts of time and money on hobbies that ultimately aren't getting your life anywhere and are hindering your success is immature - and the hobbies people do that with are often ones that they liked as little kids and have never given up.
I'm in my early twenties and I still love video games and cartoons, and so do many other Millennials, but we don't let them take over our lives. I think that's the distinction here.
I don't think the OP was implying that it's immature to enjoy those things, period - if they did, well, they're wrong. It's that spending inordinate amounts of time and money on hobbies that ultimately aren't getting your life anywhere and are hindering your success is immature - and the hobbies people do that with are often ones that they liked as little kids and have never given up.
I'm in my early twenties and I still love video games and cartoons, and so do many other Millennials, but we don't let them take over our lives. I think that's the distinction here.
You touched on an interesting point. I think the problem this thread talks about is wrong co-opting of words.
"Peter Pan", when not describing a fictional character, originally referred to men who let their childhood hobbies get in the way of adult life (a.k.a. "adulting"), or whose hobbies are too childish to begin with, like Bronies. In this case, it's a fair definition, even if it does shame such men. Temporary age-regressing is harmless, as long as work, home, family, and friends get your full attention. Which isn't the case for bona fide Peter Pans.
Feminists and white knights, however, co-opted the term "Peter Pan" as a shaming tactic, to use against stable provider men who enjoy the single life for whatever reason, given how marriage rates are declining. Be it wanting to keep playing the field (albeit with limited success), not wanting to become a divorce windfall, or some other motive. Hence, this thread.
I'm also a Millennial. I don't like cartoons made after year 2000, and I never liked video games, except briefly in middle school. "Animaniacs" and "Tiny Toon Adventures" were masterpieces compared to the stuff that gets made today. (I feel old saying this.)
Last edited by MillennialUrbanist; 11-23-2017 at 08:50 AM..
Yeah, these threads get hot. Lot of deniers. A man should ask himself, "why bother responding" unless it's to be defensive. Or, perhaps it's to defend some of the activities they "imply" might be a bit...juvenile.
Wondering why I'm here then (chuckle).
I'm non-traditional, neither defending nor explaining anything. I chose, in prior decades, to never marry. There were opportunities. I've dated as much as many red-blooded men, with only a bit of introversion that makes it harder (though very far from impossible). There are tons of women in Seattle who like to date normal-spectrum men. When I'm feeling normal, I do. Normal isn't my thing usually, though, so that's when the facade slips and women tend to go by the wayside.
I've made some great life choices, and do very well economically. So, in addition for retirement saving, I have the beaucoup sports car, swanky pickup, and motorcycle in the garage. My friends don't, we're not "that" wealthy, it's an either/or. Wive and kids tend to inhibit (though not stop) some of the previous.
Yeah, I like manolescent in a sense that I do my own thing, now at 50. Never say never, but I have no intention to marry. Barring economic trouble, I'll not make much less money and probably quite a bit more as I creep up the ladder to Client Partner. That money is spent on me, no one else at-all full-stop.
And what of it: life can be fulfilling as you want to make it, in my observation. But choosing not to embrace some of the traditionals will sort of brand you as...eccentric, at best. Juvenile, at worst. (Chuckle): find with me, would not and could not have it any other way in life. Heck, I still play me some video games from time to time, too, though not nearly as often.
Bingo. I've had several peter pan brothers in law, all their money went to hunting and fishing and gambling and booze and child support for kids they never told my sister about. My one sister paid the bills for her peter pan without any help from the guy, until everything got repo'd for lack of payment. He'd bring home money order stubs for bills he said he had paid but it turned out he bought the money orders and made them payable to himself. He cashed the money orders and used the money to gamble in pinball machines when those machines were legal, back in MD, back in the day. That marriage lasted maybe five years, she divorced him, he went in the Navy, met a gal in CAL who ended up supporting his fishing and boating. He died 20+ years ago from lung cancer due to smoking.
My 3 sisters got tired of being the strong one, the responsible ones. If they enjoyed that strong role, the savior of the marriage, the fixer, the rescuer of these 'men' with truncated development they didn't enjoy it for long. The first marriages of all 3 ended in divorce, as did one second marriage. Another second marriage was to another peter pan who spent every cent on nascar crap while my sister tried to pay the phone and other bills. The phone service was often turned off, their mortgage often in arrears. On and on it went for 30 years until this one also passed from cancer.
Peter Pans are the guys who never grow up, slough off their responsibilities, ignore their kids while running around doing their things.
Those who do take care of their responsibilities don't fit the peter pan mold if they have hobbies of various sorts. I have my own hobbies but they are subordinate to all else.
I'm not talking about Trump's politics, I'm interested in his mental state and if it fits the Peter Pan criteria, and I think his behavior marks him as a peter pan or having several characteristics of the syndrome. His schoolboy days he tended towards the "dangerous delinquents" and "power-loving troublemakers" to such an extent his father put him in military school for the discipline. Rather than run the nation he's out playing golf like he's some kind of retired dude, 17 times in his first 12 weeks in the oval office, even though he said he wouldn't be out golfing but would be in DC working for us. Yeah, sure. Peter Pan all the way.
I don't think he thought in a million years that he would win, and I have some doubt that he even wanted to win.
I don't think he likes being POTUS very much. I think the thing he likes about it is the perception that people should kiss his butt, and when that doesn't happen reflexively, in his own way....he pouts.
Some of that depends on your definition of "Peter Pan." It is too often used inappropriately, towards an independent male that enjoys his hobbies, time, etc, without long term romantic commitments.
Its more appropriately directed towards someone that isn't a fully contributing member of society (never moved out, etc...)
Excerpt: According to Urban Dictionary, the word “manolescent†is a noun and describes a “man of any age who shirks adult responsibilities.†In other words, an adult male, chronologically and physically, who still wants to live the carefree life he had as an adolescent. You probably know a few. They ascribe to the Peter Pan code as defined by J.M.Barrie, “I don’t want ever to be a man. I want always to be a little boy and to have fun.†...
Before labeling anyone as a 'Peter Pan' or a 'manolescent' I think the first thing to do is clearly define the phrase "adult responsibilities." There are only three that come to mind:
Obey the laws of the governing jurisdiction(s).
Fulfill one's own financial obligations and commitments.
Fully support one's own lifestyle.
Anything else someone may think of as an "adult responsibility" is merely a personal or lifestyle choice. We all have some free time in our lives. If a financially responsible and gainfully employed person prefers to play video games rather than pursue romantic endeavors in their spare time who is anyone else to judge?
I caught up with a friend the other day, the kind who is never backward in coming forward when offering me life advice. When I ask for it she can be quite helpful. When I don't I find her quite intrusive.
With our cups and plates empty and the conversation at an end, I told her I intended to go home and catalogue my Judas Priest singles. She rolled her eyes and said something about keeping adulthood at arm's length. WTF? What's so immature about keeping my iTunes library in order?
I caught up with a friend the other day, the kind who is never backward in coming forward when offering me life advice. When I ask for it she can be quite helpful. When I don't I find her quite intrusive.
With our cups and plates empty and the conversation at an end, I told her I intended to go home and catalogue my Judas Priest singles. She rolled her eyes and said something about keeping adulthood at arm's length. WTF? What's so immature about keeping my iTunes library in order?
It takes a very disciplined and mature man to keep a music collection well organized. Kudos to you.
I caught up with a friend the other day, the kind who is never backward in coming forward when offering me life advice. When I ask for it she can be quite helpful. When I don't I find her quite intrusive.
With our cups and plates empty and the conversation at an end, I told her I intended to go home and catalogue my Judas Priest singles. She rolled her eyes and said something about keeping adulthood at arm's length. WTF? What's so immature about keeping my iTunes library in order?
There is nothing wrong with maintaining a music collection. It is a great hobby, and I have been continuously collecting some genres myself for over 25-30 years- great option for ignoring most commercial radio and other mindless distractions when trying to accomplish jobs and tasks. By the way, go over to the music sub-forum, I've posted plenty of items from the 80s there.
I looked through all or nearly all the previous postings in this thread and some of what I say may be redundant with what some others here say, but that can't be helped.
If I were asked to give my own definition of what constitutes when particular adults (which can actually include both males and females, not just males) can be justifiably described as being characteristic of the so-called "Peter Pan Syndrome", I strictly limit my description to those adults who act as though they want to psychologically and behaviorally remain like children forever . . . not just in one or a few aspects of their lives but in a way that permeates nearly every aspect of their day-to-day lives. That is, they, as a seemingly never-ending way-of-life, willfully and consciously choose to shirk the standard characteristics of what constitutes being an "adult" versus being a "child". That is, they seemingly or apparently just want to live a life of no responsibilties and instead just have the rest of humanity-at-large forever take care of them, cover for them, pick up and clean up after them and just live a personal life of sheer indolence and fun. This can entail one or a combination of the following:
1. Not exemplifying an apparent and discernable work ethic: They act as though it is everyone else's responsibility to take care of them, cover for them, take care of the provision of their basic needs for them . . . while they just spend their time care-free and unregimented or unregulated and not owing it to society-at-large to be responsible productive useful members of society who carry their own weight in this world (or at least making a truly earnest continual effort to do so . . . even if they aren't as successful as they'd ideally like to be). Peter Paners don't even make a serious effort or hardly so and do whatever they can to avoid this. This appears to be characteristic of much (though not necessarily all) of the so-called "underclasses" in our society. (NOTE: I am not at all referring to those persons who are what can be truly designated as "psychiatrically or neurodevelopmentally challenged". I am only referring to those who are NOT so but rather have an attitudinal or character problem.)
2. Doing whatever they have to do to always have "fun fun fun fun fun" at all times (as much as they can manage to) and to live a life of carefree easyness: They sit or lounge around at home or on building stoops or on sidewalks or in public spaces and places all day or much of the day and/or are often always looking to be in an altered state with drugs and/or alcohol.
In fact, over the decades, I've actually come to entertain the thought that any number of them willfully get themselves caught up with habitual drug and/or alcohol use and debilitation (whether consciously or subconsciously) because it gives them a justification to point to for being able to collect public support and hence to remove themselves from being in a state of functionality whereby they can hold down employment. They can say that they can't work because of their drug and/or drinking problem. In a similar vein, I've come to feel that this is a major motivator for many of them having children (and then often a host of children . . . some as many as they can viably manage to and handle) and most often at such young ages and when they are truly so ill-prepared to be viable parents economically and otherwise. That is, the more children they have, the more in child support they can receive and, of course, they can then divert some portion of those child support monies to support themselves as well. It is all reflective of them not wanting to live a life of being a responsible working adult that provides for himself/herself and takes care of his/her family by themselves but rather them wanting to live a life of freedom from being a responsible productive useful member of society.
3. Such Peter Pan Syndrome individuals also often act like misbehaving children: They play music too loud in buildings they live in or otherwise create undue noise or disturbances in public spaces and places and don't care (just like misbehaving children). They leave their debris and litter all around and expect everyone else to clean up after them (just like misbehaving children). They vandalize public and private properties and spaces. And in a host of other ways, their myriad behavioral chioces demonstrate that they do not feel accountable to the rest of their fellow humans that they have to share this world with. They simply don't care or care very very little in terms of how their behavioral choices impact detrimentally upon others. In other words, it is like they have the mind of a (misbehaving and uncaring) child rather than a well-developed, well-adjusted, responsible and ethical adult.
I can go on but I think you get this gist. This is how I in particular define individuals who are characteristic of the so-called "Peter Pan Syndrome". That is, I don't care if otherwise productive, responsible, well-behaved and ethical adults have whatever interests or hobbies or preoccupations that some of you would consider "child-like". We all have some "child" within us. That, in and of itself, is not a criteria, in my mind, for being a "Peter Paner". It is the lack of taking on adult responsibilities and adult obligations that our society and culture at-large justifiably has for all who are chronological adults that makes one a "Peter Paner" . . . in my mind.
AS A FINAL NOTE: By the way, it is interesting that, before I had ever even seen the book(s) that used the title "The Peter Pan Syndrome" or otherwise heard this term bandied about in the media or on the web or in scholarly works, for a decade or two (or perhaps more?) before this point, whenever I'd think of such people as I described above, I myself would think of the children's fairy tale of "Peter Pan" and thought to myself "These people are adults chronologically-speaking but, maturationally and psychologically, they are actually rather like children. That is, they act like they want to remain childlike forever and never take on the mindset and roles of an adult member of society". I actually thought these very thoughts and then, at a later point in time (decades later), saw others refer to this type of psychology on the part of some of our fellow humans as being what they called "the Peter Pan Syndrome". Interesting that I thought the very same thoughts independent of ever seeing the term "the Peter Pan Syndrome" used by others and then I come to discover that others have thought the very same thing as well! Years ago when studying at the university level, I'd learned in the study of the sciences the term "serendipity", which appears to mean when various unconnected persons or parties who do not know of one another come to the very same conclusions or pronouncements or inventions or discoveries or theories in the same or relative same time frame yet independent of one another. So I guess this is one case of "serendipity" in my life.
Last edited by UsAll; 11-25-2017 at 10:28 PM..
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Word!
