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I'm 29. I do think that most of the men I know and have known in my life (notice that I didn't say "most men") tend to be more immature and selfish than most of the women that I know and have known.
When the women I know get a paycheck and go shopping, they head to Target and buy toilet paper and laundry detergent. They might buy themselves a shirt and some makeup, but they also buy boxers and socks for their husband, pajamas for their son, a pair of shoes for their daughter. My point is that even though women (who I know) do buy things for themselves, they typically go shopping with their entire family in mind.
When men (who I know) go shopping, they don't typically go pick up something they know their wife has been eyeballing or something they (should) know that their kid needs. They head straight to whatever it is that THEY want...a PS4/XBox game, whatever.
Also, the women I know already know that their paycheck isn't for "them" -- it's for their family. The men I know might claim that they are working for their families, but let their wives intervene on payday and tell them that pretty much their whole check is needed for a household bill or other expense. Every man that *I* know will get quite indignant and say he "WORKED for that money" and he "NEEDS" XX amount for this, that or the other.
The women I know are more likely to bring things like bottled water or soda from home to work, pack their own lunches, etc., at least on most days. The men I know think they are supposed to go out to eat with the guys for lunch. They think that should be a given because they're working. They might even treat the other guys for lunch one day even when they don't take their wife out ever. They think that things like their convenience store purchases shouldn't matter when they're working.
It's funny, but my husband isn't working right now, and I've found that we have MORE money, not less. Mind you, he wasn't making a lot when he was working, but it was around $2,000 a month. He was spending more than he was making. Basically, he'd think that since he "earned" his paycheck (like I don't earn mine...but since I work from home on the computer, it's viewed a little differently), he should be able to spend it on what he wants. So, he pretty much did...he'd basically blow his whole paycheck over the weekend, then, during the week, he'd spend "my" money on gas, lunches out with the guys he worked with, energy drinks and overpriced snacks at convenience stores, etc. It sounds like I'm fussing unnecessarily, but I'm serious...he'd make $500 a week and spend $800 a week on JUST HIM.
A lot of people might not agree with this, but i actually discouraged my unemployed husband from getting a job that was just offered to him. He would be working with his best friend, who he loves to smoke weed and etc. with. The job was going to be a minimum wage type of job where he'd be making, at best, $300 a week. I already knew from previous experience that this "job" was going to cost ME money, particularly since he'd be working with his best friend (who lives with his dad or mom, depending on which parent he's getting along with best at the time, and who has no bills) and that they'd blow money at every turn. I'd love for my husband to get a job and be a responsible adult and partner, but I know that probably won't happen, and it DEFINITELY won't happen if he works with the "best friend."
I'm not just picking on him, though. All of his friends are the same way. My dad was the same way when I was growing up -- he didn't understand why he couldn't spend "HIS" money that "HE WORKED FOR" on the things he wanted all the time. My mom has told me about things like watering down my baby formula more than she was supposed to when I was a baby because she was pinching pennies, only to find that my dad was keeping some money aside from his paychecks that she wasn't supposed to know about. So this isn't anything new.
I'm 29. I do think that most of the men I know and have known in my life (notice that I didn't say "most men") tend to be more immature and selfish than most of the women that I know and have known.
When the women I know get a paycheck and go shopping, they head to Target and buy toilet paper and laundry detergent. They might buy themselves a shirt and some makeup, but they also buy boxers and socks for their husband, pajamas for their son, a pair of shoes for their daughter. My point is that even though women (who I know) do buy things for themselves, they typically go shopping with their entire family in mind.
When men (who I know) go shopping, they don't typically go pick up something they know their wife has been eyeballing or something they (should) know that their kid needs. They head straight to whatever it is that THEY want...a PS4/XBox game, whatever.
Also, the women I know already know that their paycheck isn't for "them" -- it's for their family. The men I know might claim that they are working for their families, but let their wives intervene on payday and tell them that pretty much their whole check is needed for a household bill or other expense. Every man that *I* know will get quite indignant and say he "WORKED for that money" and he "NEEDS" XX amount for this, that or the other.
The women I know are more likely to bring things like bottled water or soda from home to work, pack their own lunches, etc., at least on most days. The men I know think they are supposed to go out to eat with the guys for lunch. They think that should be a given because they're working. They might even treat the other guys for lunch one day even when they don't take their wife out ever. They think that things like their convenience store purchases shouldn't matter when they're working.
It's funny, but my husband isn't working right now, and I've found that we have MORE money, not less. Mind you, he wasn't making a lot when he was working, but it was around $2,000 a month. He was spending more than he was making. Basically, he'd think that since he "earned" his paycheck (like I don't earn mine...but since I work from home on the computer, it's viewed a little differently), he should be able to spend it on what he wants. So, he pretty much did...he'd basically blow his whole paycheck over the weekend, then, during the week, he'd spend "my" money on gas, lunches out with the guys he worked with, energy drinks and overpriced snacks at convenience stores, etc. It sounds like I'm fussing unnecessarily, but I'm serious...he'd make $500 a week and spend $800 a week on JUST HIM.
A lot of people might not agree with this, but i actually discouraged my unemployed husband from getting a job that was just offered to him. He would be working with his best friend, who he loves to smoke weed and etc. with. The job was going to be a minimum wage type of job where he'd be making, at best, $300 a week. I already knew from previous experience that this "job" was going to cost ME money, particularly since he'd be working with his best friend (who lives with his dad or mom, depending on which parent he's getting along with best at the time, and who has no bills) and that they'd blow money at every turn. I'd love for my husband to get a job and be a responsible adult and partner, but I know that probably won't happen, and it DEFINITELY won't happen if he works with the "best friend."
I'm not just picking on him, though. All of his friends are the same way. My dad was the same way when I was growing up -- he didn't understand why he couldn't spend "HIS" money that "HE WORKED FOR" on the things he wanted all the time. My mom has told me about things like watering down my baby formula more than she was supposed to when I was a baby because she was pinching pennies, only to find that my dad was keeping some money aside from his paychecks that she wasn't supposed to know about. So this isn't anything new.
This is one reason I'm not in any rush for a relationship (I'm a man). I make well over minimum wage, but I feel like I'm barely making do as it is - and because I don't really like my job, I do enjoy treating myself now and then to purchases I wouldn't have made back when I was pulling (pre-increase) minimum wage. I can't imagine most of what I make now going to my SO and kids, and yet I know that many households do make it work with less.
I think using Peter Pan Syndrome or the Princess Syndrome is OK. There are dysfunctional people out there who typify these conditions. I don't think it is good to use the descriptors to bash others. I also doubt that most of us here grudge men or women their hobbies. But we've all probably known people who failed to launch, men or women. These people might well be caught in a perpetual adolescence. There might be other reasons though, such as severe health problems. But we've all known of guys who never worked, but lived off their parents or spouses. We've all known of women who never moved out of the family home and still lived with a parent.
I think we notice it more with the men. We are conditioned to expect guys to leave home, get jobs, join the army, go to school, and we also expect them to find a mate and found a family. Men who fail at any of these things, and who do not take responsibility for their actions, but who attempt to live a life a leisure pursuits, whether or not they have the incomes to do so, could be called Peter Pans.
With women, we tend to assume that she couldn't find a husband, is devoted to her parents, can be a live in caregiver, might not need a high paying job. And of course there are women who feel entitled to not work, to be given a grand lifestyle, to be catered to.
I have known people like these descriptions, and I imagine you have too. They may not be functional, or they may feel terrible insecurities, or they might simply be narcissistic. But they do exist.
I think a few people consider me a "Peter Pan" because I steadfastly refused to have kids, and in my single days, any gal who was not hard core child-free didn't get a second date. I'm sure many of the "Bible-beaters" from my old Atlanta suburb neighborhoods do. DW and I married too late for kids anyway.
But, yeah, I pay my bills, paid-for house, have a FICO score over 800, have a "Q" clearance, so I am pretty much a responsible adult by any real-world measure.
I take care of the responsibilities that are rightly mine. I don't seek to add to the portfolio for no good reason.
Let's try a thought experiment. What would we say about a woman, who doesn't care to settle down long term, who prefers her carefree lifestyle, spending her money travelling and going to shows and shopping? Would we say she's refusing to grow up, or would we applaud her for living life on her terms?
If they refuse to develop beyond moving out of their parents basement, then that's another issue, although men are more stigmatized for that than women.
If the woman in question is not using men for sex and leaving a trail of broken hearts and/or disease, if she isn't using her sexual prowess to get men to do her dirty work for her, if she is contributing to society and paying her taxes, then I would think she is doing fine.
Same goes for a guy who is not using women for sex and leaving trails of broken hearts and disease behind him, not using charm to get others to do him favors, and is contributing to society and paying his taxes.
The problem for immature men who want certain things from life, but don't want to ever pay any sort of price to get them, is they seem to be living in a perpetual state of adolescence. Some men don't use sex, but they will use their parents or relatives. Or they will spend their money on themselves without a thought to anyone else. If a woman does this, it is the same thing, IMO.
I've seen so many marriages and relationships go downhill where the man was extremely negatively impacted that I'd rather be a "manolescent," I guess.
One of my friends from high school got married in his early 20s. Divorced in a year or so. Neither were old enough to know what they wanted and were completely incompatible.
Another one of my childhood friends got married to a 17 year old when we were 21. They had four kids over several years. Both started cheating on the other. He's on the hook for alimony AND child support for the four as she was a SAHM. He's financially ruined.
I'm 31 now. I live in an area where there is almost no dating scene once you graduate college. Dating between say, 25-35, when the first batch of divorcees start coming on the market, is basically dead. I've been on probably a half dozen to dozen dates over the past year or so since I moved back to Tennessee. None of the women worked full time. Those who did work didn't make much money. I'm top 25% HHI as a single guy in the area, probably top 15% for individuals. All the women I know with good jobs are almost exclusively married or over 50.
It's much easier to come home, drink beer, and play video games all night.
Does Peter Pan / manolescent syndrome describe men who have lots of toys to play with such as a pickup truck, boat, RV, motorcycle, jetski, rack full of guns, chests full of tools, and who knows what else, and spend all their money and spare time playing with these.
No not at all. It's OK to have toys to pay with, be that action figures, Jet ski or a Monster truck. Men playing with Toys isn't what Peter Pan Syndrome is. It's leaching off someone else while live a care free life without adult responsibilities, it could be a Girlfriend, Wife, Parent, Mom, what ever. The responsible adults work full time and pay the bills when these lazy guys play video games all day. They don't help out around the house by doing laundry, dishes, mowing the lawn, etc, the girlfriend/wife/mom will take care of that. They are only interested in what they want to do, if you ask them to do something they don't want to it's always an inconvenience, they will give excuses, or find some reason why they couldn't do it. If you have the poor judgement to have them on your joint bank account, they will go out and buy pot with the money you were going to pay the rent with. They are leaches, smart people burn them off with cigarettes and move on with there lives.
Video games isn't the issue. I once took a week off from work and played EverQuest for 14 hours a day my entire vacation, but my mortgage and bills were paid, the house cleaned, I returned to work after my vacation to be a productive member of society.
I also think it's important to note this isn't just a male condition. I have distant relatives that had three daughters, they gave them everything, put them through college. When the one daughter got knocked up, instead of putting there foot down and telling her she had grow up and get out, they allowed her to live with them. Years later now all three daughters live at home, they don't work, children from various fathers, with no child support. The Father of the family had to go out of retirement to support this new extended family. If the parents would have put there foot down to begin with this never would have happened, at least not to this extent.
This type of conversation and observation is basically the same as I think when someone says, "Ok who farted?" I immediately assume you farted. I never really hear anyone I respect, anyone who has done anything useful with their lives, talking about "responsibilities," except for detestable martyr-type imbeciles who want a golden star for having a few kids, working some mundane office job, and taking care of their plain looking, unremarkable wife. Since they know as much as anyone their life is a complete stereotype, really lacking any sort of enjoyment or excitement or ambition, they cling to this notion that they are "grown ups" and "mature, responsible men" who forego the fun of life for being these upstanding social pillars that we all depend on. Except, we don't, because they literally chose their entire boring life out of all possible options and never stopped to question, "Why?" It sounds like petty jealousy, honestly.
I'll brag about how much fun I'm having, how great it is to do the things I enjoy, I don't see anything to brag about when it comes to work. If I wanted, I could say how my company will make a good income this year despite me only working 3-5 hours a week at anything remotely related to its operation this year, but that's exactly it -- I'd brag about NOT having to work, why would you brag about the joys of working, being "responsible," and being "mature"? The point of life is to have fun, to enjoy your time here, to get the most out of it. It's certainly not and never has been to saddle yourself with the most responsibilities you possibly can, sapping any fun or enjoyment out of the proceedings, so that you can pat yourself on the back for some make-belief sense of being "mature."
Most every guy, young and old, loves to play video games when they can, loves to watch sports, great movies, and enjoy life. The only people I've ever heard in my entire, EVER, throw around the word "mature" are incredibly boring people. The actual mature people I know don't think anything of it. They do what they say they're going to do, they work hard at something they ENJOY doing, they save the money they need to save, and it's called being an intelligent person. When I hear someone talk about, "Oh he's not very mature," it always boils down to -- this guy is funny, he likes to joke around, he has fun, etc. It often comes from some completely mediocre chick who think the point of life is to get married, pump out some babies, and have the guy work his butt off to "provide for his family." That is hell on earth, if you ask me, and if that's "maturity" or "being an adult," sign me up for being a life-long man child. I love my video games, I love my free time, and I intend to live the rest of my days enjoying my life to its fullest with more hobbies than I can even indulge in regularly, great times, and great achievements.
When I work, I do so with purpose toward my goals, and I love the work I do, it's fun for me, it's something I'd do no matter what, but I want as close to zero responsibilities in life as possible. The only responsibility I have is to myself and I hold the bar high because I have lofty goals, but I don't want any "responsibility" to get in the way of living the good life. That doesn't make anyone a "man child," it makes them intelligent enough not to be made into a tool of society.
This type of conversation and observation is basically the same as I think when someone says, "Ok who farted?" I immediately assume you farted. I never really hear anyone I respect, anyone who has done anything useful with their lives, talking about "responsibilities," except for detestable martyr-type imbeciles who want a golden star for having a few kids, working some mundane office job, and taking care of their plain looking, unremarkable wife. Since they know as much as anyone their life is a complete stereotype, really lacking any sort of enjoyment or excitement or ambition, they cling to this notion that they are "grown ups" and "mature, responsible men" who forego the fun of life for being these upstanding social pillars that we all depend on. Except, we don't, because they literally chose their entire boring life out of all possible options and never stopped to question, "Why?" It sounds like petty jealousy, honestly.
I'll brag about how much fun I'm having, how great it is to do the things I enjoy, I don't see anything to brag about when it comes to work. If I wanted, I could say how my company will make a good income this year despite me only working 3-5 hours a week at anything remotely related to its operation this year, but that's exactly it -- I'd brag about NOT having to work, why would you brag about the joys of working, being "responsible," and being "mature"? The point of life is to have fun, to enjoy your time here, to get the most out of it. It's certainly not and never has been to saddle yourself with the most responsibilities you possibly can, sapping any fun or enjoyment out of the proceedings, so that you can pat yourself on the back for some make-belief sense of being "mature."
Most every guy, young and old, loves to play video games when they can, loves to watch sports, great movies, and enjoy life. The only people I've ever heard in my entire, EVER, throw around the word "mature" are incredibly boring people. The actual mature people I know don't think anything of it. They do what they say they're going to do, they work hard at something they ENJOY doing, they save the money they need to save, and it's called being an intelligent person. When I hear someone talk about, "Oh he's not very mature," it always boils down to -- this guy is funny, he likes to joke around, he has fun, etc. It often comes from some completely mediocre chick who think the point of life is to get married, pump out some babies, and have the guy work his butt off to "provide for his family." That is hell on earth, if you ask me, and if that's "maturity" or "being an adult," sign me up for being a life-long man child. I love my video games, I love my free time, and I intend to live the rest of my days enjoying my life to its fullest with more hobbies than I can even indulge in regularly, great times, and great achievements.
When I work, I do so with purpose toward my goals, and I love the work I do, it's fun for me, it's something I'd do no matter what, but I want as close to zero responsibilities in life as possible. The only responsibility I have is to myself and I hold the bar high because I have lofty goals, but I don't want any "responsibility" to get in the way of living the good life. That doesn't make anyone a "man child," it makes them intelligent enough not to be made into a tool of society.
Cool rant, bro. News flash: "getting the most" of your "time here" for many people involves finding a job you enjoy in your chosen field, which you chose, you know, because you enjoy it and it turns you on. If the work world hasn't worked out that way for some people, some are able to make a contribution to society or humanity in general through some kind of volunteer project. And they still find time to play. But their idea of "having fun" is doing cool projects that help people. You seem to have missed the memo. Oh well.
And btw, "most every guy, young and old" does NOT love to play video games whenever they can or watch sports. For that matter, it's highly debatable as to whether spending a large chunk of one's life playing games and watching TV constitutes living life to the fullest.
But....diff strokes for diff folks, right?
Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 10-24-2018 at 10:56 AM..
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News flash: "getting the most" of your "time here" for many people involves finding a job you enjoy in your chosen field, which you chose, you know, because you enjoy it and it turns you on. If the work world hasn't worked out that way for some people, some are able to make a contribution to society or humanity in general through some kind of volunteer project. And they still find time to play. But their idea of "having fun" is doing cool projects that help people. You seem to have missed the memo. Oh well. 
