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People are accusing others of "shaming" all over the place these days. For example--
Sleep with a lot of people? Someone says something and they are "**** shaming."
Weight issues? Someone says something and they are "fat shaming."
Tall? Short? Someone says something and they are "body shaming."
Yesterday I overheard one mother tell another in the park that her child was "shamed" for having brown eyes during a science lesson that showed an example of a blue eyed person. (Eye color shaming?)
Everything has a "shaming" attached to it. Every day on social media, and indeed here on C-D, I see someone announcing that any criticism is "shaming." Conversely, there is an equal number of people lamenting that society is ever more entitled and without propriety or shame.
So, should people ever feel shame? Should anyone ever shame someone else? Is it ever helpful to point out behavior that could be more healthy or positive? What does it really mean to "shame" and when should this term be used, if at all?
In an extreme example, is it appropriate to shame a murderer or pedophile, even if they are acting on strong internal drives that they can't control?
What "shaming" to me means to make someone feels bad, delibrately cause the person look bad to others and put them in the position of public embarassment/ outcast.
There're nasty people intentionally shame you to put you down, or even gaslighting to make you think you should be ashame of yourself. Such shaming is shameful behaviour itself and namely bully. However, I can't say the same for a murderer being shamed, especially pedophiles with the excuse of acting on strong internal drives.
What "shaming" to me means to make someone feels bad, delibrately cause the person look bad to others and put them in the position of public embarassment/ outcast.
There're nasty people intentionally shame you to put you down, or even gaslighting to make you think you should be ashame of yourself. Such shaming is shameful behaviour itself and namely bully. However, I can't say the same for a murderer being shamed, especially pedophiles with the excuse of acting on strong internal drives.
Interesting. I don't think I connect public embarrassment with shaming per se, but maybe that is a component. Could you shame someone privately?
I have a friend who is quite tall and actually has had some success in modeling due to her height. Yet she will say that people "body shame" her when they say things like "oh I wish I was as tall as you!" Any mention of her height, positive or negative, is shaming to her, even if its just two people chatting at home.
What "shaming" to me means to make someone feels bad, delibrately cause the person look bad to others and put them in the position of public embarassment/ outcast.
.......
I can agree with that......and that is something I learned to disable as a weapon against me back in, probably, ROTC. Unfortunately, it also meant that I disabled a tool they might have used as well, such as when it is said, "Have you no pride?".
SHRUG. It goes both ways but in my defenses, I have learned to "say", "That is one opinion, (whoever); it does not happen to be mine.".
I wasn't raised a Catholic so that Jedi mind trick of shame doesn't work on me.
Not that I'm a psychopath but when I think that I'm being psychologically manipulated, I have a tendency to remove myself from whoever is using shame as a method to achieve their means.
Shame, anger and fear usually create an emotional response that is undesirable for solving problems or situations.
I think people over use the word 'shaming' to mean something else entirely. They use it to mean mocking, belittling, criticizing, etc.
Actual shame can be a good thing in some circumstances. Don't many parents tell their children they should be ashamed of themselves for some act or behavior they know better than to do? Shouldn't a bigger child be shamed for picking on a much younger or smaller child? Petty thieves and vandals shamed by their friends and communities for their acts? Shame and guilt are not always negatives, they should be things people feel when they know they have done something wrong to others.
It just comes down to good old fashioned judgmental bullcrap. Been going on as long as people have been living in community. Sitting in the stocks, standing in the pillory, wearing a scarlet "A," being shunned and outcast from the community, being ridiculed in a work meeting, having your appearance shredded when you post a picture online, having your behavior picked apart...all cut from the same cloth. The intent is to ridicule/embarrass.
Commenting on someone's appearance in a neutral manner (i.e. observing that a person is tall) does not fall into this category. An observation is not a judgment.
In an extreme example, is it appropriate to shame a murderer or pedophile, even if they are acting on strong internal drives that they can't control?
The justice system, and punishment, historically, has a strong component of shame, because shame CAN be such a powerful deterrent.
Look at sex offender registries...yes, they are absolutely used for public safety, due to certain sex offenders' well-documented resistance to rehabilitation. But, make no mistake, there is obviously also a huge shame component. You're in a public database, with your image and address right there.
For other criminal behavior, too, consider the stigma of being a convicted felon...getting jobs, etc. with a record. Instead of doing the crime, doing the time, and getting on with life, having paid one's debt to society, there is the continual shame of your record hanging over your head, it doesn't go away because you've done your prescribed time. This ongoing shame is enacted to be as much a deterrent as the formal punishment.
We use retributive justice, more so than rehabilitative, because we presume shame to be a large deterrant. And it sure can be.
I've had enough shame in my life....for being her poor during my childhood, for being "different" and ADD (for most of my life before I found out). I don't do much shaming of others...for pedophiles and crooked politicians I might.
People are accusing others of "shaming" all over the place these days. For example--
Yesterday I overheard one mother tell another in the park that her child was "shamed" for having brown eyes during a science lesson that showed an example of a blue eyed person. (Eye color shaming?)
I recall a lesson decades ago from elementary school where the kids were sorted out by eye color and one day the kids with dark eyes got to be the privileged class and order the lighter eyed kids around and then it was reversed the next day with the lighter eyed kids being on top. It was to teach about prejudice. If I recall, the experiment had to be stopped early because the kids started to go "Lord of the Flies" with rather astonishing rapidity. As a result, I only got a half day on top after putting up with the nasty for the whole previous day, which made my very young self angry about the unfairness of it all.
Maybe a similar lesson was what they were talking about.
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