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Sometimes people don't answer when you send them email, and there could be all kinds of reasons. In those situations, if I think it's important, I might send a second email. But then, if they don't answer that, what can you do?
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Send the message through a different way, like a phone call or text. Because their email might be flagging yours as spam.
Otherwise, yes, it's rude for them to not respond.
No, scientific types are constantly connected to email, etc. Normally you would get an instant reply, if they gave a hoot about you.
You're a student from 20 years ago who only contacted her because you need something from her, and keep calling her self important and complaining that she doesn't care about you. Why should she?
The strangest things really do happen. I'm still pretty close friends with a half dozen people I went to university with 30 years ago, very close to several of my professors who are still fussing over me and advising me, but completely ignored by several others. None of it makes a lot of sense from my perspective, but there you have it. At least two that I would like to have been friends with as a mature adult apparently don't remember me. But the ones who do counterbalance the others.
Oh well.
It's true, some people like us but others don't. And it might be impossible to figure out the reasons.
Last fall I contacted about 7 people, to get references for the teaching job that fell through, and most of them said sure. Two of them were my 2 best friends during graduate school, long ago. I only needed a very general character reference, nothing about my teaching skills, and I told them that. One of them said sure, and the other was weird. Both of them have been professors all this time.
The one who said sure, I had actually communicated with a little over the years, but not much. We had been close friends long ago, and neither of us ever forget that.
The other one wrote that she had not seen me in a long time, and she could not lie. I said What do you mean you can't lie? It made no sense. We had been close friends -- what is there to lie about? If she wanted to make sure I had not changed for the worse, she could have offered to talk on the phone.
So there were 2 completely different reactions from 2 people. I was actually pretty shocked. I had tried to stay in touch with her over the years, but she was too busy. And, strangely, shortly before all this happened we had communicated about trying to get together soon.
It's true, some people like us but others don't. And it might be impossible to figure out the reasons.
Last fall I contacted about 7 people, to get references for the teaching job that fell through, and most of them said sure. Two of them were my 2 best friends during graduate school, long ago. I only needed a very general character reference, nothing about my teaching skills, and I told them that. One of them said sure, and the other was weird. Both of them have been professors all this time.
The one who said sure, I had actually communicated with a little over the years, but not much. We had been close friends long ago, and neither of us ever forget that.
The other one wrote that she had not seen me in a long time, and she could not lie. I said What do you mean you can't lie? It made no sense. We had been close friends -- what is there to lie about? If she wanted to make sure I had not changed for the worse, she could have offered to talk on the phone.
So there were 2 completely different reactions from 2 people. I was actually pretty shocked. I had tried to stay in touch with her over the years, but she was too busy. And, strangely, shortly before all this happened we had communicated about trying to get together soon.
I feel like maybe people are trying to give you hints and you're just not picking up on them.
I mean I know all you want is support but people have already told you to call her...so I guess...call her...but, I don't know...if I were getting total non-response from one person, and this thing about "not lying" from another - and at the same time she apparently doesn't even want to speak to me on the phone - I'd be looking a little deeper at all this.
You can keep saying other people are rude or weird or have baseless non-reasons or whatever, but I don't think that's helping because here you are, still mystified.
You do come off (yeah, I know, I'm unsupportive and mean) as very very entitled, very angry that how dare a person not acknowledge you...calling these people nasty names (ironically then you say we here are the ones being mean to you, while you're putting this professor down with name-calling)...you seem like you maybe pull/demand attention...this probably makes people uncomfortable. Just a hunch.
I mean this was immediately on this thread...very first post...using language like they must be saying "F you" by daring not to answer you...immediately saying you are "angry" and so on. A few people will say: Meh...I only speak to this woman once in 20 years...I'll just give some non-specific rec and then I won't need to deal. But a few will either refuse to fudge (i.e. "I can't lie") or some may just avoid the situation entirely.
But if you don't believe that, you don't, and if you think it's just them, then okay. Do what you want but in that case I don't know why you're asking for advice.
I guess...call both of them? Is that what's supportive?
Good luck and hope it all works out.
Last edited by JerZ; 01-30-2018 at 07:47 PM..
Reason: extra "maybe"
Yes I do feel entitled to respect. I think everyone is. I would not refuse to answer someone, if they had a polite request for something they had a right to expect.
Many of you guys have been very hard on this person. It's really kind of creepy. Would you say those things to her face? I doubt it.
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I agree.
As for unreturned messages and phone calls, I think it's inconsiderate to not reply at some point. Sure people are busy, but even if it's two weeks later, they should reply or acknowledge.
In some cases, there can be unforeseen consequences of not returning phone calls or emails. If I didn't wish to give someone a reference, I would at least respond so they would know.
As for unreturned messages and phone calls, I think it's inconsiderate to not reply at some point. Sure people are busy, but even if it's two weeks later, they should reply or acknowledge.
In some cases, there can be unforeseen consequences of not returning phone calls or emails. If I didn't wish to give someone a reference, I would at least respond so they would know.
Yes, exactly my point. I don't want someone on my reference list who might say something negative about me. In my last email, I said I would understand if she does not want to be a reference for me, since I have very little teaching experience.
My current employer knows I have very little experience, and they don't care. They are giving me a chance. Or maybe it's because adjunct pay is low, so they can't get experienced teachers. No idea, but I am getting a chance. I don't want references who might ruin it for me.
I gave her a chance to be honest and say she does not want to recommend me. I asked her to please answer one way or the other, if she gets a chance. It would take 5 seconds, so there is no excuse for not answering.
I admit I don't trust people very much. I have lived long enough to see how self-centered and inconsiderate they can be, in the business (or academic) world. People are striving to climb to the top -- some are, anyway. Your feelings and wellbeing are not their main concern.
But still (and again) from her perspective she agreed to be a reference for you after a catch-up conversation months ago. You neglected to get in touch to have that conversation. When you ask someone to be a reference for you, it's up to you to make that job as easy as possible, providing all the necessary information she might need (like your CV and job history, and a description of the position you're applying to,) and not leaving it up to her to get back to you to do that favor. As it's not typical at all to ask for a reference from someone with whom you haven't worked in over 10 years, you needed to be as deferential as possible in this case. OP, you dropped the ball, she considers the matter closed, and need to stop clutching your pearls about this. You didn't need her reference anyway. Let it drop.
Last edited by fleetiebelle; 01-31-2018 at 01:24 PM..
Sometimes people don't answer when you send them email, and there could be all kinds of reasons. In those situations, if I think it's important, I might send a second email. But then, if they don't answer that, what can you do?
If I send 2 emails and they still don't reply, I feel angry. What excuse do they have? They know it's important to me, but they can't spend 30 seconds to answer? Or 5 seconds to say they are busy and will answer me when they have more time?
Recently I sent an email to someone to ask for a reference. I had asked them previously, and they had said ok. So, when applying for a different job, I asked again. They didn't answer, so I waited about a week and sent another. My emails were polite. They did not answer.
What can their message be? It has to be "F YOU."
It is not terribly important, since I already got the job. But this is an adjunct teaching job, and I might apply to other colleges in the future. The person I am talking about is my most important reference for teaching.
I guess I have to just forget about it, but I really think it's wrong and cannot understand it at all.
Maybe the person died.
I know exactly how you feel ~ I've experienced that with a few of my friends. Most people just do not like to "write". I remember the same problem with snail mail way back in times of yore.
But, today, the people you mention on here likely have their noses glued to their hand devices. You can't compete with the abbreviated texting. I do not, will not, use texting as a form of communication. And so, needless to say, communicating with people is a challenge for me. For the friends that are on FB, I leave a PM advising them to read their email if I sent them one, and so far that works.
I know exactly how you feel ~ I've experienced that with a few of my friends. Most people just do not like to "write". I remember the same problem with snail mail way back in times of yore.
But, today, the people you mention on here likely have their noses glued to their hand devices. You can't compete with the abbreviated texting. I do not, will not, use texting as a form of communication. And so, needless to say, communicating with people is a challenge for me. For the friends that are on FB, I leave a PM advising them to read their email if I sent them one, and so far that works.
Me too. I still have a flip phone. I am so tired of seeing everyone with their nose in their phone, ignoring everyone around them.
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