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Old 02-19-2018, 08:41 PM
 
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Bill Gates recommends this book, and he is right to do so. Extraordinary book, gives more than a little hope during this Trump era: _Enlightenment Now: The Case for Reason, Science, Humanism, and Progress_, by Steven Pinker.

Pinker is a fascinating person and is quoted as saying:
Quote:
Humans are "systematically self deceived. Each one of us thinks of ourselves as more competent and benevolent than we are."
Do you feel you have an accurate idea about your intelligence and character?

Pinker on Wikipedia:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Pinker
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Old 02-19-2018, 09:24 PM
Status: "I don't understand. But I don't care, so it works out." (set 1 day ago)
 
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I kind of disagree. Some of the most effective people, and the most competent people I know don't rate themselves that way. Typically people who get awards for their profound positive impact on society say they're embarrassed to get the award, there were so many others who are equally deserving. And they truly mean it.

Typically, in an employee year end review, the completely useless employees rate themselves very highly, and the employees who are valuable to the company see that they have growth areas.
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Old 02-19-2018, 11:44 PM
 
Location: on the wind
23,250 posts, read 18,751,797 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC View Post
I kind of disagree. Some of the most effective people, and the most competent people I know don't rate themselves that way. Typically people who get awards for their profound positive impact on society say they're embarrassed to get the award, there were so many others who are equally deserving. And they truly mean it.

Typically, in an employee year end review, the completely useless employees rate themselves very highly, and the employees who are valuable to the company see that they have growth areas.
Maybe its more important to evaluate by "intention" rather than the resulting competence. If someone's intent is honestly to improve their abilities, to be more humane, less judgmental, to continue learning, etc. they are probably less likely to deceive themselves.
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Old 02-19-2018, 11:59 PM
 
Location: Tricity, PL
61,637 posts, read 86,981,866 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC View Post
I kind of disagree. Some of the most effective people, and the most competent people I know don't rate themselves that way. Typically people who get awards for their profound positive impact on society say they're embarrassed to get the award, there were so many others who are equally deserving. And they truly mean it.

Typically, in an employee year end review, the completely useless employees rate themselves very highly, and the employees who are valuable to the company see that they have growth areas.

^^^^I agree with you!
The smarter someone is - in the sense of being awake and aware, open-minded, attuned to their surroundings and curious about the wider world - the more humble they tend to be.
Many smart and talented people doubt themselves is that they know the world is vast and their own knowledge is limited. They don't brag about their knowledge or successes, and they are uncomfortable in the limelight.

They may have terrific experience and incredible judgment, but they also know that they'll never know everything there is to know, even about their favorite subjects.

Dumb people are often arrogant and think the world about themselves. They tend to compliment themself for just about everything they vaguely know. They brag about their success and money they make. They aren't even exaggerating - they really believe it.
When people boast constantly about how smart they are - they lack self-confidence, feel inadequate, or are seeking validation from others.
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Old 02-20-2018, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Northern Maine
5,466 posts, read 3,060,792 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaraZetterberg153 View Post
Bill Gates recommends this book, and he is right to do so. Extraordinary book, gives more than a little hope during this Trump era: _Enlightenment Now: The Case for Reason, Science, Humanism, and Progress_, by Steven Pinker.

Pinker is a fascinating person and is quoted as saying:


Do you feel you have an accurate idea about your intelligence and character?

Pinker on Wikipedia:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Pinker
Pinker, the Mr capt obvious of atheism.
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Old 02-20-2018, 01:32 PM
 
Location: Northern Maine
5,466 posts, read 3,060,792 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC View Post
I kind of disagree. Some of the most effective people, and the most competent people I know don't rate themselves that way. Typically people who get awards for their profound positive impact on society say they're embarrassed to get the award, there were so many others who are equally deserving. And they truly mean it.

Typically, in an employee year end review, the completely useless employees rate themselves very highly, and the employees who are valuable to the company see that they have growth areas.
sinners think theyre saints.
Saints know they're sinners.

The former group is self deceptive.
The latter knows their own imperfections.

Do I need to read 400 pages of psychobabble to figga that out? Nope.
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Old 02-20-2018, 02:48 PM
 
Location: Southwest Washington State
30,585 posts, read 25,132,037 times
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Speaking for myself, I think I cut myself too much slack. But if I did not do this, I also think I would be paralyzed with guilt. I do not have patience with the idea that we deserve treats, like desserts, luxurious environment, privilege. We deserve these things as much as we deserve hunger, poverty, repression.

As far as I can tell we are all flawed people. I might elevate myself over someone else because of her perceived faults, but the fact is, I am as flawed in metaphysical, or in Christian terms. If I am guilty of something, then I am guilty of everything.

I do think that it is very tempting to think more highly of ourselves than we ought. But there are others who think themselves the most hopeless of sinners. Either extreme is harmful, IMO.

We are all guilty of something; but equally we are all innocent of something.

The exceptions to this are psychopaths.

And I am totally aware of rampant evil in the world. But most of us are as guilty as we are innocent. IMO.
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Old 02-20-2018, 04:18 PM
 
Location: In the bee-loud glade
5,573 posts, read 3,344,831 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesg View Post
sinners think theyre saints.
Saints know they're sinners.

The former group is self deceptive.
The latter knows their own imperfections.

Do I need to read 400 pages of psychobabble to figga that out? Nope.
How many pages is your bible?
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Old 02-22-2018, 08:16 AM
 
13,511 posts, read 19,269,573 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaraZetterberg153 View Post
Bill Gates recommends this book,
That's a good enough reason for me NOT to read it.
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Old 02-22-2018, 09:17 AM
 
Location: SoCal again
20,756 posts, read 19,947,491 times
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Humans are "systematically self deceived. Each one of us thinks of ourselves as more competent and benevolent than we are."

If this was true, then why are so many depressed and feel worthless? How come most don't even try to reach the stars? Shouldn't that also mean, there should be more failures around, because everyone thinks they can do more than they are capable of?


Or am I not understanding this phrase correctly?
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