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"Narcissistic" gets thrown around a lot, to describe...everybody.
Are young people self-centered: to an extent. They're learning who they are and they're learning the skills for survival as adults so they necessarily must focus on themselves in various ways. Pretty natural, IMO.
This makes sense, and I agree with this assessment. I would also add that young people, generally speaking, are extremely motivated to impress their peers and gain social acceptance, so they often act as if they are constantly on stage, performing some role in front of an audience, with the main goal of appearing as socially competent as possible. This desire to both impress and be accepted is the cause for some wacky young adult behaviors, in my opinion.
"Narcissistic" gets thrown around a lot, to describe...everybody.,
To be fair, though, being narcissistic, in and of itself, isn't a pathology. Everybody CAN be narcissistic, and most people probably DO have their periods of time in life when they are prone to behaving in a narcissistic manner (outside of early childhood development, when empathy for others isn't highly developed yet, and self-focus is a developmental norm, obviously).
I guarantee parts of my twenties were pretty self-focused, and I say that as someone who was doing a Peace Corps-like program in my early twenties and probably running in circles a bit more focused on the welfare of others than a lot of young adults. Young adulthood is a big identity-building time, and that's going to come with a sometimes super indulgent amount of introspection. To some, people in this age group operate at a level that reads as ridiculously narcissistic, but it's also not developmentally atypical to be primarily focused on yourself at this stage, especially if you have no dependents.
That said, I do think that, much in line with "I'm sooo OCD! I can't stand it if my closet isn't organized!" or, "I'm super ADHD, I get distracted from boring things," people do have a tendency to overgeneralize that everyone who is just a garden variety azzhole is "surely an example of narcissistic personality disorder," which is what I think you're probably getting at. Not every person who is a huge jerk has narcissistic personality disorder. Mostly, they're just huge jerks.
^ Right...that's the distinction I was making...when people use "narcissistic" it often DOES hint at pathology, a literal illness...or in this case, a whole condition of society with "doom" looming in the background.
But that's just not always the case. People can "be" narcissistic in some ways and not have some sort of mental illness.
We HAVE had posts on this forum where clearly people were pathologically narcissistic...but there is a distinction. It's not *all* "the sky is falling*, every time with every self-centered thought or even self-centered time period. I feel like it sort of "lightens" or lessens the importance of true, actual NPD, which can literally ruin the lives of those around the person. Permanently.
Just making the distinction. I really don't see the youth of today as having an overriding epidemic of NPD and being clinically neurotic and doomed. Know what I mean?
My belief is that simply being "young" and not old makes many younger people feel special in some way, as if simply being "young" is an achievement in and of itself and, by extension, makes one a Rock Star, or a Big Shot. Am I wrong to view younger people this way (generally speaking)?
But in my personal experiences, more often than not, younger people just seem so in love with themselves and seem to believe that they are at the top of some social food chain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sas318
Teens to mid-20s are self-centered and egotistical because they have nothing else going on in their lives. Their parents, siblings, and friends are healthy, they aren't married (generally), have no children, they have no responsibilities. They may have rent or a house, but as long as they have a job, that's just writing a check to the bank. So what's on their minds? Self improvement and self expression.
But like anyone who gets older, that gets old, they've been there and done that and tried of the self indulgence and self expression, so they find something else to do. That's getting older. I know that I don't really care about the stuff I cared about in my own youth anymore. Many things really do get old and boring after awhile.
I'm a Doctor of Sociology and your question is in my opinion more a sociological question than a psychological question. In the 1970s, Sociologists have already discovered that narcism, "being interested into yourself", egoism is steadily on the rise. You ask whether being narcissistic is a trait typical for youth. According to sociology, narcism is a trait typcial for every human being of the modern contemporary time. Yes, this includes old people as well. We live in the me-first society.
Youth has two goods that are scarce and extremely precious:
(1) Beauty,
and
(2) free time.
Psychological answers à la "it's just a phase...Youth needs time to find out. They experiment. When they will be older, they will stop self-expression." are not helpful at all, because they implicate that there is some kind of adult behavior that is superior to youth behavior and that adult behavior will replace youth behaviour at some time. It implies that there are stages: first youth behaviour and then adult behaviour.
I clearly say: no. Classical adult behavior is fading. Narcism, egoism, self-expression are key traits of the entire society and more and more adults and people 35+ exhibit this behaviour and won't stop. I forecast: More people beyond the age of 35 will adopt narcist, egoistic youth-typical behavior and this behavior will not be exclusive for youth anymore, just as English isn't anymore exclusive to the United Kingdom.
Sas318 has already offered a very good sociological explanation why youth disproportionately exhibits this behaviour: They have more free time. Adults have to work from Monday to Friday from 9 am to 18 o'clock. They have to care about work, taxes, they have to care about many things that youth doesn't have to care about. Adults are under much more constraints and these constraints limit their free time. Adults become working machines, who have to fulfill besides their work, many other duties. Adults don't live for individual fulfilment anymore, they live for a schedule, for earning money.
Youth is free of these constraints. There are less socially binding norms for youth.
However, I disagree with the second part. People don't stop with "self-luxury/expression" because they become tired of it. They stop with it mainly because:
1. There are still some socially binding norms and adults feel obliged to obey them. One of these social norms states "it is inappropriate for an adult to act like a teen". People have the freedom to behave however they want to, but they behave how society allows and wants them to behave.
2. Less free time.
In today's world that are more forms and possibilities of self-expression than ever before and socially bindings norms like the one above are decreasing in importance. Hence, a growing number of adults continues to live a way that is very similar to a youth lifestyle. Global Youth lifestyles replace former types of adult lifestyles.
Why do people behave narcissitic?
Because western culture rewards beauty, individuality and self-portrayal, as well as egoism.
An intelligent young men, that isn't hot, is not loved.
A hot young men, that isn't intelligent, is loved and appreciated. He has a higher value in the society of today.
Now let's take two girls. Both are beautiful. The one girl is beautiful but shy, too shy for a beauty tutorial. The second girl is beautiful and likes to talk about herself. Society will reward the second girl more.
Narcism is a form of expressing one's personality.
Self-realizisation is always some kind of egoistic.
When people are free of constraints, they put themselves first. Of course, there are many constraints nowadays but they apply in different forms and ways than before; they are more adjusted to a society that is based on beauty, individuality and self-portrayal.
For example, Donald Trump and Melania Trump demonstrate the me-first society and prove that it is not bound to youth; Melania is in her 40s. Melania is living a youth lifestyle, she looks still extremely attractive, and she even refused to live in the White House in the first months because she did not want to give up her life of freedom in a tower in New York. Donald Trump has many fans and supporters who love him for his self-expression, for his actions, for his very strong ego. They liked him so much that they made him president.
In the future, there will be many more adults who will behave like Donald and Melania. They are winners in today's society. In general, narcist people are more winning-type like people.
And finally, to answer your question:
"My belief is that simply being "young" and not old makes many younger people feel special in some way, as if simply being "young" is an achievement in and of itself and, by extension, makes one a Rock Star, or a Big Shot."
No. Youth doesn't use their young age to feel special.
For youth, older people have no relevance. Older people play no role in the lives of youth. They are invisible. Young people are surrounded by other young people. And there's extreme competition among youth to look better than other people of the same age. So it's not Young vs. Old, it's Young Versus Young; it's Cool against Cooler, it's Extraordinary against Spectacular.
Beauty is always relative. Let's imagine a school with 500 people. Every pupil has some kind of beauty rating and will be in a hierarchic structure of beauty; that means the average pupil will be just mediocre and in fact, nothing special at all. The ca. 50-80 most beautiful people of the school will compete against each other, and since there is digital social media, against any other person also using social media. Since beauty is relative, only those with with the most stunning or most extreme looks will stand out like Anastasiya Shpagina. There are many forms of self-expression and self-portrayal and this behavior will also be conveyed into adult ages beyond the age of 30.
Last edited by QuebecOpec; 05-02-2018 at 08:11 PM..
Are younger people inherently self-centered and narcissistic?
Absolutely, and all of us were that way at some point. The brain is still developing up to the mid 20's so young people are impatient, impulsive, self-centered, egotistical, etc.
Think about when you leave the house for the first time (18-21). You're like a kid at a candy store with the new found freedom of doing whatever the hell you want. That feeling and time in your life is amazing, nothing like it. Some young adults won't make it past their mid 20's due to their crazy behavior (drugs, alcohol, car accidents, addiction, suicide)
Once you get to your 28+ you're a bit more mature and had your fun so you start to think more than just doing.
I'm a Doctor of Sociology and your question is in my opinion more a sociological question than a psychological question. In the 1970s, Sociologists have already discovered that narcism, "being interested into yourself", egoism is steadily on the rise. You ask whether being narcissistic is a trait typical for youth. According to sociology, narcism is a trait typcial for every human being of the modern contemporary time. Yes, this includes old people as well. We live in the me-first society.
Youth has two goods that are scarce and extremely precious:
(1) Beauty,
and
(2) free time.
Psychological answers à la "it's just a phase...Youth needs time to find out. They experiment. When they will be older, they will stop self-expression." are not helpful at all, because they implicate that there is some kind of adult behavior that is superior to youth behavior and that adult behavior will replace youth behaviour at some time. It implies that there are stages: first youth behaviour and then adult behaviour.
I clearly say: no. Classical adult behavior is fading. Narcism, egoism, self-expression are key traits of the entire society and more and more adults and people 35+ exhibit this behaviour and won't stop. I forecast: More people beyond the age of 35 will adopt narcist, egoistic youth-typical behavior and this behavior will not be exclusive for youth anymore, just as English isn't anymore exclusive to the United Kingdom.
Sas318 has already offered a very good sociological explanation why youth disproportionately exhibits this behaviour: They have more free time. Adults have to work from Monday to Friday from 9 am to 18 o'clock. They have to care about work, taxes, they have to care about many things that youth doesn't have to care about. Adults are under much more constraints and these constraints limit their free time. Adults become working machines, who have to fulfill besides their work, many other duties. Adults don't live for individual fulfilment anymore, they live for a schedule, for earning money.
Youth is free of these constraints. There are less socially binding norms for youth.
However, I disagree with the second part. People don't stop with "self-luxury/expression" because they become tired of it. They stop with it mainly because:
1. There are still some socially binding norms and adults feel obliged to obey them. One of these social norms states "it is inappropriate for an adult to act like a teen". People have the freedom to behave however they want to, but they behave how society allows and wants them to behave.
2. Less free time.
In today's world that are more forms and possibilities of self-expression than ever before and socially bindings norms like the one above are decreasing in importance. Hence, a growing number of adults continues to live a way that is very similar to a youth lifestyle. Global Youth lifestyles replace former types of adult lifestyles.
Why do people behave narcissitic?
Because western culture rewards beauty, individuality and self-portrayal, as well as egoism.
An intelligent young men, that isn't hot, is not loved.
A hot young men, that isn't intelligent, is loved and appreciated. He has a higher value in the society of today.
Now let's take two girls. Both are beautiful. The one girl is beautiful but shy, too shy for a beauty tutorial. The second girl is beautiful and likes to talk about herself. Society will reward the second girl more.
Narcism is a form of expressing one's personality.
Self-realizisation is always some kind of egoistic.
When people are free of constraints, they put themselves first. Of course, there are many constraints nowadays but they apply in different forms and ways than before; they are more adjusted to a society that is based on beauty, individuality and self-portrayal.
For example, Donald Trump and Melania Trump demonstrate the me-first society and prove that it is not bound to youth; Melania is in her 40s. Melania is living a youth lifestyle, she looks still extremely attractive, and she even refused to live in the White House in the first months because she did not want to give up her life of freedom in a tower in New York. Donald Trump has many fans and supporters who love him for his self-expression, for his actions, for his very strong ego. They liked him so much that they made him president.
In the future, there will be many more adults who will behave like Donald and Melania. They are winners in today's society. In general, narcist people are more winning-type like people.
And finally, to answer your question:
"My belief is that simply being "young" and not old makes many younger people feel special in some way, as if simply being "young" is an achievement in and of itself and, by extension, makes one a Rock Star, or a Big Shot."
No. Youth doesn't use their young age to feel special.
For youth, older people have no relevance. Older people play no role in the lives of youth. They are invisible. Young people are surrounded by other young people. And there's extreme competition among youth to look better than other people of the same age. So it's not Young vs. Old, it's Young Versus Young; it's Cool against Cooler, it's Extraordinary against Spectacular.
Beauty is always relative. Let's imagine a school with 500 people. Every pupil has some kind of beauty rating and will be in a hierarchic structure of beauty; that means the average pupil will be just mediocre and in fact, nothing special at all. The ca. 50-80 most beautiful people of the school will compete against each other, and since there is digital social media, against any other person also using social media. Since beauty is relative, only those with with the most stunning or most extreme looks will stand out like Anastasiya Shpagina. There are many forms of self-expression and self-portrayal and this behavior will also be conveyed into adult ages beyond the age of 30.
Let me be the first on the site to add points to your reputation score, sir or madam.
Do you believe that young people, generally speaking, are self-centered and egotistical? And if so, why do you believe that? And by "young" people I am specifically referring to the late teens/mid-20s time period. In my personal experience, people in that particular age bracket often seem to be overly self-centered and even narcissistic, to the point of it being blatantly offensive (at least to me). That whole "Look at me, I'm special" mentality permeates so many in the younger age brackets, and it just annoys me for some reason. My belief is that simply being "young" and not old makes many younger people feel special in some way, as if simply being "young" is an achievement in and of itself and, by extension, makes one a Rock Star, or a Big Shot. Am I wrong to view younger people this way (generally speaking)?
I realize that I have generalized here, so I make the concession that of course, not all young people are that way; a sizable portion of them probably are not that way. But in my personal experiences, more often than not, younger people just seem so in love with themselves and seem to believe that they are at the top of some social food chain. And I find that to be repulsive and offensive. And for the record, I have felt this way for a long time; even when I was a younger person (I'm 43 now), I generally tended to dislike many of my peers for the above-mentioned reasons. I was a very humble, quiet, polite, and conservative type of person (even when young), and most of my peers were the opposite (they were loud, arrogant, cocky, brash, etc.), so I sort of disliked many in my peer group.
No. I don't "believe" one way or another, I know. There are plenty of teens and early-20's folks who are idealistic, and philanthropically-oriented. Some are very altruistic. There are also young people, who have low self-esteem, or are generally shy. None of these types are in love with themselves, or believe that they're at the top of any metaphorical food chain. It's too bad you weren't able to find a circle of friends of your same type, when you were that age. They were definitely around. I was your type, for example, and I tended to gravitate toward the Asian kids, among others, who were likewise.
There is always tremendous diversity in psychological types among any age-group.The Boomers certainly have their share of narcissists, as did their parents' generation. And what about the Roaring 20's, and the Gatsby era? There's always been a vapid, party crowd, OP. The key is to figure out how to find your type, your posse. Examples can be found in all generations.
I don't know if young people are necessarily self-centered and narcissistic. That is a function of emotional intelligence, which is sort of an innate gift, independent of age. Certainly a lot of no-longer-young people are like that. What young people are, more than older people, is innocent and inexperienced. But what's the opposite of that? Empathetic, kind, altruistic? I don't see that as a function of age.
^ Right...that's the distinction I was making...when people use "narcissistic" it often DOES hint at pathology, a literal illness...or in this case, a whole condition of society with "doom" looming in the background.
But that's just not always the case. People can "be" narcissistic in some ways and not have some sort of mental illness.
We HAVE had posts on this forum where clearly people were pathologically narcissistic...but there is a distinction. It's not *all* "the sky is falling*, every time with every self-centered thought or even self-centered time period. I feel like it sort of "lightens" or lessens the importance of true, actual NPD, which can literally ruin the lives of those around the person. Permanently.
Just making the distinction. I really don't see the youth of today as having an overriding epidemic of NPD and being clinically neurotic and doomed.
Definitely not.
NPD is generally understood to have a clinical prevalence of 6.2%, on the very high end.
Individuals with true narcissistic personality disorder aren't "just" jerks. They not only have a lack of empathy, they actually have legitimate difficulty even recognizing the desires, subjective experiences, and feelings of others. They aren't necessarily even deliberately being dicks, they may in fact truly assume that others are completely consumed with their own personal "stuff," and it they don't even recognize that others do, in fact, have feelings and needs. They seriously lack the insight, period.
Being a self-absorbed twit is a phase, at best, for many young people. Being a self-absorbed twit can be a longtime behavior pattern, for some, and they don't always grow out of it. But even among those people, that's not, most of the time, narcissistic personality disorder. NPD requires fairly specific pervasive patterns of particular behavior.
Think about when you leave the house for the first time (18-21). You're like a kid at a candy store with the new found freedom of doing whatever the hell you want. That feeling and time in your life is amazing, nothing like it. Some young adults won't make it past their mid 20's due to their crazy behavior (drugs, alcohol, car accidents, addiction, suicide)
Welllllll...some young people are. Certainly not all.
It doesn't seem like it to the percentage of young adults who DO do the "go crazy with newfound freedom" thing, but the reality is that there are actually many who enter this same developmental period who exhibit far more cautious behavior, who have more risk-averse personalities, who are minimally affected by newfound freedom or not that intoxicated by it, etc. Sometimes, it's because they've been very conditioned to be highly structured and rule-following, sometimes it's because they have high anxiety going outside the lines doesn't appeal for that reason, sometimes it's just a matter of personality, natural cautious nature, inordinately highly developed sense of personal responsibility, etc. We've all known, or been those people.
And, likewise, there are those who, for various reasons/due to various life experiences, bust loose a bit older after having not done so earlier on. Or people who never really have the "go wild" phase, at any point, because it's just not compatible with who they are.
Really, manifestation of that sort of behavior can be as attributable to aspects of personality as it can be psychosocial development. It's kind of a mixed bag. But everybody doesn't go through the "kid at a candy store" thing, in reality.
This, of course, doesn't mean that everyone doesn't have the capacity to behave in a self-absorbed manner. Even the most altruistically behaving people have their own percentages of time when they are putting their own self-interests first. It's part of being human. And it doesn't mean one is a narcissist, etc., obviously.
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