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I have been coming to terms with how Trump’s election has affected me. There are some subtle and not so subtle behavior changes I have had in the past 18 months. (Late 30s black female who grew up in white-majority suburbia)
I am struggling to read books - especially non-fiction which is where I have put my energy in. Want to avoid potential distress.
I am a pretty social person and get along with most people pretty easily. I tend to go to a good number of social and networking events. People connect with me easily and I almost always leave with a few new acquaintances.
I have a mixed (in ethnicity) group of friends, but most of my closest friends are Black and Asian.
I have noticed, that while in the past I may have talked to anyone who looks friendly, now I am seeking out mostly black people or other people of color. I am not really getting the contact info for any white people I may meet.
I am not really cultivating friendships with net new white people. In my brain it feels risky. I just don’t know where they may stand, or if they will cause microaggresssions. And it all feels a lot less comfortable than it used to feel. Even in the so-called progressive Bay Area.
And I’m not the only one. It seems like this is a common sentiment among other people of color I know (all of them). Everyone is sharing weird incidents they are having. Or we are talking about the latest incident of racial profiling, or police getting called for nonsense.
We just have a lot more worry about how people will react to us with all of this overt racism, discrimination and prejudice. It is really sad. I’m not seeing how to bridge the gap anytime soon, it just causes some low level permanent stress that I didn’t used to feel.
I met someone recently and he has it worse than me, he actively is avoiding socializing in settings with mostly white crowds. Preferring to stay home or only go out with people he knows.
Anyone else having similar feelings?
I am not American, but I also find if this menace is catching up with the rest of the world too with the advent of social media. We have a group for our school friends who were together upto middle school . Each one of them have a different religious view, different political view, supports different leaders and have different view points on issues. Most are civil enough to ignore sensitive posts, but different view points lead to distance gradually.
You wonder how you used to fight,debate or clash for conflicting view points, yet remained close friends. You didnt even care what language one spoke or what religion one were, but now we have to be politically correct at every thing to maintain the contacts or risk losing it.
Our Republicans and Democrats cannot get together for the good of America and we citizens. They'd rather destroy America to win the next election.
Our society merely reflects that.
It really started at the below the belt level when many on the right kept saying Obama was not born in the U.S. and was a Muslim long after both were proven false.Then have the audacity to criticize others on identity politics. Granted, Obama missed a few opportunities to bring us closer together, too. Trump has been far worse, though.
Now we and the two major parties have to move beyond that and get together for the good of the country and citizens as you said. It will be easier to do that with a new adult President in 2020 though, instead of the disrespectful, temperamental guy we have there now; either a Democrat or a Republican that is much more responsible and less divisive than President Trump.
Last edited by chessgeek; 05-22-2018 at 07:59 PM..
I am not American, but I also find if this menace is catching up with the rest of the world too with the advent of social media. We have a group for our school friends who were together upto middle school . Each one of them have a different religious view, different political view, supports different leaders and have different view points on issues. Most are civil enough to ignore sensitive posts, but different view points lead to distance gradually.
You wonder how you used to fight,debate or clash for conflicting view points, yet remained close friends. Now we have to be politically correct to maintain the same or risk losing it.
I do not mind having civil debate with friends and do, it is not an echo chamber, and you do not have to agree with me to be a friend.
But this thread really highlights the exhaustion/hesitation I feel right now when potentially dealing with new people.
A person can say, “I have this experience, it is uncomfortable.”. Someone might respond “well my experience is not like that - prove it. I don’t believe that is possible. You need to convince me. Where is your evidence? Educate me on all of the historical stuff that may have impacted it. You haven’t presented me with enough evidence.”
And maybe after you do all of that heavy lifting, they may possible believe you for that one case. And you have to do it again and again. And suddenly you have taken on the burden of educating someone else. Because your experience can’t be taken at face value. There is no empathy until you have proven that experience is valid. There is no meeting in the middle.
And that’s what sends me into retreat. A lifetime of taking on that work has left me tired.
I respect Mr. Freeman's opinion, but I suspect this is a much easier opinion to hold when you're a universally respected millionaire - he's insulated by wealth and fame in such a way that he's never going end up in, say, a Philando Castile situation.
I do not mind having civil debate with friends and do, it is not an echo chamber, and you do not have to agree with me to be a friend.
But this thread really highlights the exhaustion/hesitation I feel right now when potentially dealing with new people.
A person can say, “I have this experience, it is uncomfortable.”. Someone might respond “well my experience is not like that - prove it. I don’t believe that is possible. You need to convince me. Where is your evidence? Educate me on all of the historical stuff that may have impacted it. You haven’t presented me with enough evidence.”
And maybe after you do all of that heavy lifting, they may possible believe you for that one case. And you have to do it again and again. And suddenly you have taken on the burden of educating someone else. Because your experience can’t be taken at face value. There is no empathy until you have proven that experience is valid. There is no meeting in the middle.
And that’s what sends me into retreat. A lifetime of taking on that work has left me tired.
Have you ever thought to ask them to prove that "their experience is not like that"? They need to convince you, too. After all, they want evidence from you. So you should get it from them, too. Put some of the effort and exhaustion in their court. It's a two way street. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
I wasn't playing the victim card or asking for "empathy"; I was trying to show that my opinions and observations are informed by my own life experiences.
We each are the sum of our experiences. I've often heard it said that if you are white, you can't possibly understand what it's like to grow up black in America. It's just as true, though, that if you're a middle class suburban white person from Omaha (or an inner city black person from Chicago), you also can't understand what it's like to grow up poor white in Appalachia. If you grew up on a Montana ranch, you can't understand what it's like to grow up in Manhattan, regardless of your ethnicity.
We could go on and on with this, until we have divided the country up into so many little groups that couldn't possibly understand each other that we would conclude that we can't possibly be a country. Yet, here we are. Over the past 240 years or so, we have tried to function as a country, and we have a government that pretty much allows us to be a country. We're a country. We don't all get along and there's lots of unfairness, yet there is potential to come together eventually.
Now, for all the "you couldn't possibly" people out there, advocating for division and separation, I would say this: you are part of the problem. I don't care if you had the sh*ttiest upbringing ever, are treated poorly today for reasons not your fault. You may have your particular challenges to overcome and you can overcome them if you work at it.
When I see a man paralyzed from the neck down, writing books and contributing greatly to the world, or someone stricken down by MS or ALS and still able to do scientific research, or someone fighting against terminal cancer, I think, "There but for grace of God go I", and I am all the more grateful for my lot in life and all the more full of respect for those who fight to overcome tremendous obstacles that most of us can't even imagine.
And I all the more pity those who have their four limbs and a good brain, and complain bitterly that they don't get treated with enough respect when they walk into a store.
Thanks for sharing your experience and perspective. As to your last sentences I don't find it difficult or contradictory to greatly respect someone like the late Stephen Hawking for his achievements and at the same empathize with someone with no disability who got mistreated in a store or elsewhere. So while we agree to disagree on that, I appreciate the rest of the post.
Yes, people can overcome challenges, but also getting support from others (not necessarily $, but lending an ear or encouragement) in addition to their own efforts, helps that happen.
Last edited by chessgeek; 05-22-2018 at 09:20 PM..
I do not mind having civil debate with friends and do, it is not an echo chamber, and you do not have to agree with me to be a friend.
But this thread really highlights the exhaustion/hesitation I feel right now when potentially dealing with new people.
A person can say, “I have this experience, it is uncomfortable.”. Someone might respond “well my experience is not like that - prove it. I don’t believe that is possible. You need to convince me. Where is your evidence? Educate me on all of the historical stuff that may have impacted it. You haven’t presented me with enough evidence.”
And maybe after you do all of that heavy lifting, they may possible believe you for that one case. And you have to do it again and again. And suddenly you have taken on the burden of educating someone else. Because your experience can’t be taken at face value. There is no empathy until you have proven that experience is valid. There is no meeting in the middle.
And that’s what sends me into retreat. A lifetime of taking on that work has left me tired.
Why did you post your original comment, if you don't want to deal with disagreement? If you say something provocative like "I'm tired of dealing with whites; from now on it's only browns and blacks" or similar, obviously that's going to rankle a lot of people.
The past few years saw a revival of racial divisions such as we have not witnessed since the 1960s. The focus on social justice reached a fever pitch and created a backlash.
In my opinion, we're now in a post-racial period, though it may not seem like it. The focus today is on economic growth and opportunity that reaches into all corners of society. Gradually, as this process unfolds, people will come around and realize that things are not so bad.
The talking heads will be the last to admit it, however.
I do not mind having civil debate with friends and do, it is not an echo chamber, and you do not have to agree with me to be a friend.
And maybe after you do all of that heavy lifting, they may possible believe you for that one case. And you have to do it again and again. And suddenly you have taken on the burden of educating someone else. Because your experience can’t be taken at face value. There is no empathy until you have proven that experience is valid. There is no meeting in the middle.
And that’s what sends me into retreat. A lifetime of taking on that work has left me tired.
Most of this debate would not be needed if your friends knew how to read. I find self-help to be of much more use than the opinion or experience of any person or even a group of persons.
I'm a history nut - and very much a generalist, so I know a little about a lot of things. But I get into reading "binges" on different subjects and a couple years back I read dozens of books on the subject(s) at hand. Many are first person accounts - others are amazing historical research put into book form.
Now...I know that doesn't help with me, as a friend, knowing exactly how one particular person feels at any given moment. But it does make me know how we got here..and how bad it is...and that education is the only way out (or incredible violence...but I prefer education).
Your statement of "taking on that work" rings true with just about everyone I know that has tried to "save the world". Many of my peers went into teaching, social work, nursing and even activism. Most of the teachers burnt out in about a decade. All my children went into teaching or social work or environmental justice, etc. - I won't say they are "burnt out" completely, but they certainly come to a point where they realize it's a BIG MACHINE and that they can only try to push it...sometimes it doesn't move.
Right now is a time when things are headed backwards, or at most optimistic, are not moving forward. It's an important realization that things do not happen based on our individual lifetimes and/or careers.
That's a big picture- the small picture, as to your friends and your leisure...is that you should 100% do what makes you feel more relaxed. If that means purposely excluding a group of people, so be it.
It is a very sad thing that this nation is so slow in fulfilling the dream of equality. Again, I think education is the key...along with understanding. To quote a famous monk..."The pirates from the coast of Africa who take ships, rape women, steal the goods and do other horrible things....if I was born in that village, I would probably be doing the same thing". The point is, people are a product of their villages, their parenting, their culture and other influences. Forgive them for they know not what they do.
It would be rude to suggest you get a second wind and continue the battle. Others will pick up your sword...sometimes it is best to step back and recharge.
Why did you post your original comment, if you don't want to deal with disagreement? If you say something provocative like "I'm tired of dealing with whites; from now on it's only browns and blacks" or similar, obviously that's going to rankle a lot of people.
The past few years saw a revival of racial divisions such as we have not witnessed since the 1960s. The focus on social justice reached a fever pitch and created a backlash.
In my opinion, we're now in a post-racial period, though it may not seem like it. The focus today is on economic growth and opportunity that reaches into all corners of society. Gradually, as this process unfolds, people will come around and realize that things are not so bad.
The talking heads will be the last to admit it, however.
Lol! As a white guy, a person of color that decides to primarily hang out with other people of color after exhaustively making efforts to reach out to white people in the past, does not even begin to rankle me. It concerns me that those people could not be bothered to acknowledge the things that happened to her as real. If it bothers anyone that much, you should realize you were not forced to participate in this thread.
When I look at old pictures of my parents and grandparents, aunts and uncles, etc, I think how lucky they were as white people. They could vote before 1964! The women had the right to vote since 1921 and the men had the right to vote since this nation was founded. They did not have to sit in the back of the bus. They were not chased by the KKK in white robes with torches. They were not lynched. They were also not in detention camps like many Japanese families.
I suggest all of us whites look at pictures of our parents and ancestors and imagine "What if they had been people of color?" It is not white guilt, but a reality check to take off our rose colored glasses. For some of you, I think it could change your outlook. For others, to reinforce it which is also positive.
You are clearly in denial regarding your "post racial period" comment.
Did you by chance miss the news of the Charlottesville march last August by David Duke and his fully armed white supremacists, while chanting "Jews will not replace us"? The holding up of torches while surrounding a black church the night before. The death of a women by one of his supporters. Then President Trump made it worse by criticizing "both sides" twice instead of condemning racists for domestic terrorism.
Did you follow the stories of white children at schools bullying children of color while chanting "Build the wall. Leave the USA". ? Surprisingly, some parents of these children did not believe it was a big deal.
That is real racism in action, but those talking heads that are in denial will never admit it, even when it is shown to them!
Last edited by chessgeek; 05-22-2018 at 10:20 PM..
Why did you post your original comment, if you don't want to deal with disagreement? If you say something provocative like "I'm tired of dealing with whites; from now on it's only browns and blacks" or similar, obviously that's going to rankle a lot of people.
Why should I risk arguing with people I have no investment in? Why should I invest in potentially contentious relationships. I said I wasn’t seeking new white friends.
I’ve been having interesting convos with my non-American friends this year.
Quote:
The past few years saw a revival of racial divisions such as we have not witnessed since the 1960s. The focus on social justice reached a fever pitch and created a backlash.
Because there were barely any gains since the 60s and the fee gains were evaporated in the great recession so....
Quote:
In my opinion, we're now in a post-racial period, though it may not seem like it. The focus today is on economic growth and opportunity that reaches into all corners of society. Gradually, as this process unfolds, people will come around and realize that things are not so bad.
The talking heads will be the last to admit it, however.
We can’t have economic growth and opportunity for all if we don’t unwind the structural stuff that limits it now.
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It will be easier to do that with a new adult President in 2020 though, instead of the disrespectful, temperamental guy we have there now; either a Democrat or a Republican that is much more responsible and less divisive than President Trump.
