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Tough love doesn't work in all cases. Tough love is simply forcing a person to respect a specific person's boundaries. So tough love is actually not a respectable way to treat another person and that is where the risk lies. People who respond well to this treatment believe they deserve the negative consequences of crossing boundaries of those with power over them. They do not actually learn how to set up their own boundaries in ways that promote healthy relationships.
People who believe they do not deserve the negative consequences of tough love will not respond positively to it and will draw conclusions that go against the purpose of lesson. In other words, all tough love will reinforce is that power over others is desirable which is not something you want to reinforce in a sexual predator.
So basically, tough love is just one way to deal with criminals and sometimes it is not the most effective way. We use it when we know it will work but it doesn't build relationships.
Those are violent acts though, when people talk about tough love they usually mean "harsh discipline" that's supposed to benefit them in the long term as opposed having a complete assault on someone like usually happens with pedophiles.
From what I see, the attitude is that the offender should be thrown under the jail never to see the light of day again...or they should be drawn and quartered in the town square.
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Originally Posted by fatalecriminale
No one ever suggests for example "discipline your kid for drugging and assaulting that woman".
The general perception in our society is that sexual offenders are unredeemable. No amount of discipline or structure will affect the problem. FWIW, I don't think that's the case in many situations. But its neither here nor there.
In direct contrast, especially with young people, we allow considerable room for forgiveness for most other crimes.
Someone that's taking a wayward path can be "tough loved" into the right path...A certain amount of structure, discipline, or religious awakening depending on your outlook is seen to solve problems. And, you see it echo'ed in comments. Two kids near a property I hunted were poaching, and tearing the area up with their 4 wheelers, and when told to stay away cursed at my hunting partner and sped off on their ATV. My other hunting partner said, "Them boys are aching for a Dad in their life." It was his way of saying they needed a figure to put some sense and manners in them.
So, I have a different answer than what others have said.
My first reason is...our society does not seem to truly care about the victims of sexual violence, or at least not as much as or more than it does about the perpetrators. I know that men can be sexually assaulted, but, obviously, the overwhelming majority of victims are women and children.
But women are still a "minority" group, not in numbers but in terms of status and power. And crimes against minority groups are never handled the way they should be or treated with the severity they should be, and they never inspire true urgency to end or deter those crimes. In probably the majority of rape cases, the blame goes on the victim. She's either a liar, a slvt, she didn't take enough precautions in everyone's eyes, or she's "ruining" someone's life. Basically, very few people care about the woman or that she was assaulted.
With children, people tend to be more interested in protecting themselves and the perpetrator. What I mean by "protecting themselves" is stuff like, "There's no way something like that is happening under my nose--how could/would I not see it? Am I a bad person/mother/father? NO, I can't think that way, I can't handle the idea that I'm a bad person or that this is at least partially my fault. So, I'm just going to keep letting it go on by pretending it's not happening because I can't handle the fact that I didn't stop it before or that I might be a bad person/parent." And stuff like, "The police were called to this home on 7 different occasions with complaints about child abuse, and no arrest was ever made, no investigation ensued and the child was never removed from the home. Oh, but we're the police--we're not going to admit that we f*cked up in this case and that we're partially to blame for abuse continuing/getting worse."
And in protecting perpetrators, that can be a byproduct of the previous two examples. But sometimes it's done on purpose because, for example, the child's mother thinks she's "in love" with the perpetrator, and that comes out weighing more than her child's abuse.
If in so many cases, nothing is ever done to stop/prevent sexual assault on children, then why would anything be done to perpetrators of this violence after the fact? The actions leading up to their getting caught often show that no one cared enough to begin with...and no one cares enough after, either.
The second reason...a lot of sexual crimes are done by people who have mental illnesses. I do think there's something that can be done about it. I don't think it's tough love, considering you're talking about a lot of mentally ill people. I'm sick of people blaming crimes on "lone wolf" people. I am a loner, and I'm here to tell you that lone wolf types who commit crimes tend to be white or Asian guys who are either lone wolves because they have been rejected by most people or because they have let being entitled as hell and not getting what they incorrectly feel entitled to drive them mentally insane. There is nothing about this description that fits me--nothing (I'm not a man, not white, not Asian, I am not entitled, and I reject people--they don't reject me). Which means being a "loner" is not the issue.
All I'm going to say about one of the things I believe can be done about reforming people who commit sexual crimes is...I wonder if anyone has ever tested the testosterone levels in these people for abnormal levels. Or any other hormones/neurotransmitters. Just a hunch.
I didn't read others and assume this has been said, but if you perceive some getting tough love it is b/c they do something that doesn't indicate it is a disease. Sexual violence and pedophila is a diseses so it is hard to give that person tough LOVE. It will not help them. Severe punishment won't either but it is better than softer love.
I think for many people, some crimes are "understandable" while others just aren't.
I'm not saying that they AGREE with the crimes or think they're right. You might not CONDONE the behavior, but you can at least understand why they did it.
For example, I think stealing is wrong, but I can understand WHY someone who is addicted to drugs would steal something. I have and do know addicts, so even though I would never steal anything, I understand the kind of desperation that often goes along with drug addiction. I don't condone the behavior, but I can UNDERSTAND it. I also know that there's help out there, and that plenty of people are addicts and then get clean and live happy, healthy, productive lives.
Or, let's say a person is homeless -- maybe their fault, maybe not. They have nowhere to stay. They have nothing of value. They're hungry. They see an unlocked car with $200 in cash in it. Maybe they wouldn't have taken it in a previous life. But right now, that $200 could get them a seedy hotel room, something to eat, and yes, maybe some booze or whatever drug got them in their situation in the first place. Is stealing the money wrong? Absolutely. Can I at least piece together in my head why this person might do it? Yes.
Likewise, I can understand why a man who walks in on his wife in bed with another man might be tempted to kill him or her. I'm not saying that it's right. As someone who is married, though, and who can imagine the emotions that would go through me in that situation, I can UNDERSTAND why the person might do that. I also know that, in general, that person probably isn't a danger to society.
However, there are things that I can't understand. Killing people for fun isn't something that I can understand. Molesting children isn't something that I can understand. Raping someone isn't something that I can understand. I also wonder if these people can be rehabilitated and live normal lives that don't put others at risk.
Unless I am missing something here, I don't hear about too many 8 year olds raping each other to "feel powerful".
Sexual abuse as a child can lead to psychotic break and compartmentalization which then leads to suppression and then subsequently another break later in life - Resulting in the rapists you hear about on the evening news.
If you don't like child molesters and rapists - The attention should be on prevention. The first step being birth control. The second step should be management of the current vulnerable populations in the foster care system who are the most likely to fall victim to molestation/rape. Resolve the problem at the source. Stop treating the superficial symptoms. Locking one up does not stop the next one from being bred.
OP is asking to compare "tough love" to vigilantism?
Yay, City Guy!
This discussion is confusing because of the common misuse of the term "tough love." The practice of tough love in its correct use isn't a tangible action. It is a parenting or guiding style.
The focus isn't on trying to force change although change is hoped for. The focus of tough love is actually passive - to stop enabling a person who is acting out and allowing him to receive the full impact of the consequences of his behavior.
Tough love is treating a person with problematic behaviors with the respect you would give any autonomous adult. You allow him to make his decisions and you don't interfere with the consequences of his decisions. Theoretically then he is to learn "when I do X, then Y always happens" and he begins to make changes in his behavior as a result of that learning experience which he has created.
Tough love isn't applying punishment; it's allowing punishment to happen.
Edited to add: The concept of tough love has been co-opted by government agencies and has been altered to mean applying consequences which ideally the offender will dislike and therefor change his behavior.
It seems obvious that in the case of certain crimes offenders can't be allowed to continue their behavior to experience consequences because of the risk to victims.
This discussion is confusing because of the common misuse of the term "tough love." The practice of tough love in its correct use isn't a tangible action. it is a parenting or guiding style.
The focus isn't on trying to force change although change is hoped for. The focus of tough love is actually passive - to stop enabling a person who is acting out and allowing him to receive the full impact of the consequences of his behavior.
Tough love is treating a person with problematic behaviors with the respect you would give any autonomous adult. You allow him to make his decisions and you don't interfere with the consequences of his decisions. Theoretically then he is to learn "when I do X, then Y always happens" and he begins to make changes in his behavior as a result of that learning experience which he has created.
Tough love isn't applying punishment; it's allowing punishment to happen.
Edited to add: The concept of tough love has been co-opted by government agencies and has been altered to mean applying consequences which ideally the offender will dislike and therefor change his behavior.
It seems obvious that in the case of certain crimes offenders can't be allowed to continue their behavior to experience consequences because of the risk to victims.
Now this is a great post. Thank you for addressing the OP.
I had an idea that tough love works when there is no physical harm done to the victims but it wouldn't work when there is. I experienced tough love differently than the way you describe. With the definition you provided, it makes a better case for why it wouldn't work on those offenders.
I have always wondered this. It seems that from many aspects of society (parenting, criminal justice system, schools) that the solution to a young person/adult who is either doing petty things like stealing, cheating academically, doing hard drugs, being disrespectful/using threatening language is to give them an authority figure that will dish out "tough love" i.e. emphasize manners and respect till they get sick of it or send them to an institution (bootcamp, prison) where they have to live harsh. Even with long time drug dealers and murderers, you see them becoming religious and whatnot. From anecdotals, it seems that many do turn themselves around, even the most hardcore rebels. I've even seen online the most 'liberal' parents/families take that suggestion
When it comes to sexual violence however, that doesn't seem to be the case. No one ever suggests for example "discipline your kid for drugging and assaulting that woman". I know there is a special f*cked up perversion when it comes to sexual crimes but still even in prison, I don't think I've ever heard of someone being given tough love except only revenge by inmates and even that doesn't seem to change rapists and pedophiles.
Why is this? Does it have to do with a mental disturbance in those involved in sexual crimes? I heard one reason for this may be because those who engage in sexual violence are 'lone wolf/self inspired' type criminals and that means that they are unlikely to be deterred or learned by discipline of any kind. Calling some kid a 'coward' for hitting a woman might make him think twice but doing that to a sexually perverted person would have no effect.
What do you think?
After clarifying the original definition of tough love I'm actually not sure I did address the OP's question. After rereading the OP I'd like to answer that yes, I do think in some cases of people who don't change no matter what type of rehab techniques are applied, it is a form of brain damage or condition which is incurable that makes change nearly impossible without severe controls.
Having someone with that prognosis in one's family makes tough love a life saver for family members and really not such an easy thing to accomplish. It means totally letting go of any attempt to control the problem and allowing whatever is going to happen to occur. Fear of what that may be makes it difficult to achieve releasing the person and behaviors that are holding the family captive with worry.
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