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Location: The edge of the world and all of Western civilization
984 posts, read 1,191,900 times
Reputation: 1691
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luciano700
I understand the thing about suppressing feelings, but depends on the severity too
Also, there's hardly any mental institutions for men anyways, don't see how they're supposed to help themeselves???
You don't? If you go to any insurance provider's directory and search under behavioral health, you'll probably find many. Or if you prefer, you can search through Google, Yelp, Bing, Psychology Today, or just about anything else that yields results for services. The point is that men are less likely to seek professional help because of cultural gender norms. There are a lot of things men (and women) won't do because it's considered taboo in our culture for one gender to engage in a performance or activity deemed for the opposite gender. The services are certainly there, and they're not at all hard to find, but until it's considered more culturally acceptable for men to ask for help once in a while then this is going to be an issue.
You don't? If you go to any insurance provider's directory and search under behavioral health, you'll probably find many. Or if you prefer, you can search through Google, Yelp, Bing, Psychology Today, or just about anything else that yields results for services. The point is that men are less likely to seek professional help because of cultural gender norms. There are a lot of things men (and women) won't do because it's considered taboo in our culture for one gender to engage in a performance or activity deemed for the opposite gender. The services are certainly there, and they're not at all hard to find, but until it's considered more culturally acceptable for men to ask for help once in a while then this is going to be an issue.
So would you rather let the men be completely vulnerable and emotional and have society collapse?
Also, if I wanted to fix my mental health I would rather meditate tbh. I haven't seen my physicatrist in about 4 months now. I may be young still and have mental disabilities, but even I am already handling that on my own...
And again are we sure said hipster/youth/urban culture isn't aggravating the fabric?
Location: The edge of the world and all of Western civilization
984 posts, read 1,191,900 times
Reputation: 1691
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luciano700
So would you rather let the men be completely vulnerable and emotional and have society collapse?
Also, if I wanted to fix my mental health I would rather meditate tbh. I haven't seen my physicatrist in about 4 months now. I may be young still and have mental disabilities, but even I am already handling that on my own...
And again are we sure said hipster/youth/urban culture isn't aggravating the fabric?
Why are you making such a ridiculous accusation? I'm telling you the reason why it is the way it is. I don't want to make this thread political or anything, but a great example of changing gender norms is the Kavanaugh and Trump Administration debate, which is tied to the greater Me Too movement. In this case, women are revealing sexual abuse and assault. If you followed the Senate Judiciary hearings on Thursday, you could have noticed interesting gender dynamics at play, especially when men were trying to enforce the norm. Like it or not, the current gender norms are putting shame on victims and women are trying to take a stand against it, because it really isn't their fault. In the hearings, you could easily see that some men were being very dismissive of women. This is one example of a shift in gender norms, and you'll likely see the new norm gradually replace the old over several years. Back to you: don't even try to spin what I said into "have society collapse" because I never wrote that and you know it. Until people start tearing down the stigma, it's going to be the way it is.
No, I don't think youth culture is aggravating things. If anything, I think Gen X and prior generations are trying to exert their waning influence and keep things the way they are. Millennials are generally more open to variation in gender and sexuality. Just compare earlier generations and look at the number of female Millennials with college degrees, support for LGBT rights, later ages for marriage, support for abortion and female reproductive rights, etc. So, as with the evolutionary thing, you're wrong on this part too. The younger generation is more likely to shake up what is and is not considered normal to older people. Just consider the average age of people in Congress, and look at some of the gender-specific legislation that comes out of the Capitol or White House. Again, I'm not trying to make it political, but it's been much more exaggerated and pronounced under the current administration. Believe it or not, perceived government endorsement and/or condemnation does have some influence on people. If you look at the Kavanaugh debate again, the wise thing to do would've been to not defend him, nor Ford, and ask to see the full story before taking a side. While I personally don't want him to be in the SCOTUS, I believe he has the right to clear his name if he indeed did not do what we was alleged to do. However, when someone blindly takes his side, it's perceived to be male privilege, especially when another male steadfastly believes he did nothing wrong without substantial evidence. People do take notice of that and it sends a message that everything is okay and that Ford is merely a hysterical woman.
I'm not sure if you're following, but that's a slice of gender dynamics in action that you can see playing out. While this is a current event and movement in the United States, there's not much in the way of men seeking help, nor of removing the stigma of behavioral health. I think the absolute closest to any address of this issue have been some high-profile suicides of males within the past year or two, such as Chris Cornell, Anthony Bourdain and Chester Bennington, to name a few. When these happen, the media raises the issue that mental health needs to be discussed, but nothing ever comes of it.
I'm an older guy (65) and I cry pretty easily. Much more so then my wife. I can look at her and tear up, not out of sadness, but joy. I don't know if that makes me mentally unstable, but I'm okay with it. When I was younger, I only remember crying one time, when my dad died.
Why are you making such a ridiculous accusation? I'm telling you the reason why it is the way it is. I don't want to make this thread political or anything, but a great example of changing gender norms is the Kavanaugh and Trump Administration debate, which is tied to the greater Me Too movement. In this case, women are revealing sexual abuse and assault. If you followed the Senate Judiciary hearings on Thursday, you could have noticed interesting gender dynamics at play, especially when men were trying to enforce the norm. Like it or not, the current gender norms are putting shame on victims and women are trying to take a stand against it, because it really isn't their fault. In the hearings, you could easily see that some men were being very dismissive of women. This is one example of a shift in gender norms, and you'll likely see the new norm gradually replace the old over several years. Back to you: don't even try to spin what I said into "have society collapse" because I never wrote that and you know it. Until people start tearing down the stigma, it's going to be the way it is.
No, I don't think youth culture is aggravating things. If anything, I think Gen X and prior generations are trying to exert their waning influence and keep things the way they are. Millennials are generally more open to variation in gender and sexuality. Just compare earlier generations and look at the number of female Millennials with college degrees, support for LGBT rights, later ages for marriage, support for abortion and female reproductive rights, etc. So, as with the evolutionary thing, you're wrong on this part too. The younger generation is more likely to shake up what is and is not considered normal to older people. Just consider the average age of people in Congress, and look at some of the gender-specific legislation that comes out of the Capitol or White House. Again, I'm not trying to make it political, but it's been much more exaggerated and pronounced under the current administration. Believe it or not, perceived government endorsement and/or condemnation does have some influence on people. If you look at the Kavanaugh debate again, the wise thing to do would've been to not defend him, nor Ford, and ask to see the full story before taking a side. While I personally don't want him to be in the SCOTUS, I believe he has the right to clear his name if he indeed did not do what we was alleged to do. However, when someone blindly takes his side, it's perceived to be male privilege, especially when another male steadfastly believes he did nothing wrong without substantial evidence. People do take notice of that and it sends a message that everything is okay and that Ford is merely a hysterical woman.
I'm not sure if you're following, but that's a slice of gender dynamics in action that you can see playing out. While this is a current event and movement in the United States, there's not much in the way of men seeking help, nor of removing the stigma of behavioral health. I think the absolute closest to any address of this issue have been some high-profile suicides of males within the past year or two, such as Chris Cornell, Anthony Bourdain and Chester Bennington, to name a few. When these happen, the media raises the issue that mental health needs to be discussed, but nothing ever comes of it.
I'm an older guy (65) and I cry pretty easily. Much more so then my wife. I can look at her and tear up, not out of sadness, but joy. I don't know if that makes me mentally unstable, but I'm okay with it. When I was younger, I only remember crying one time, when my dad died.
Sounds like your heart has softened with age. I think that's a good thing. There are a lot of callous hard hearts in this world, both young and old.
Why are you making such a ridiculous accusation? I'm telling you the reason why it is the way it is. I don't want to make this thread political or anything, but a great example of changing gender norms is the Kavanaugh and Trump Administration debate, which is tied to the greater Me Too movement. In this case, women are revealing sexual abuse and assault. If you followed the Senate Judiciary hearings on Thursday, you could have noticed interesting gender dynamics at play, especially when men were trying to enforce the norm. Like it or not, the current gender norms are putting shame on victims and women are trying to take a stand against it, because it really isn't their fault. In the hearings, you could easily see that some men were being very dismissive of women. This is one example of a shift in gender norms, and you'll likely see the new norm gradually replace the old over several years. Back to you: don't even try to spin what I said into "have society collapse" because I never wrote that and you know it. Until people start tearing down the stigma, it's going to be the way it is.
No, I don't think youth culture is aggravating things. If anything, I think Gen X and prior generations are trying to exert their waning influence and keep things the way they are. Millennials are generally more open to variation in gender and sexuality. Just compare earlier generations and look at the number of female Millennials with college degrees, support for LGBT rights, later ages for marriage, support for abortion and female reproductive rights, etc. So, as with the evolutionary thing, you're wrong on this part too. The younger generation is more likely to shake up what is and is not considered normal to older people. Just consider the average age of people in Congress, and look at some of the gender-specific legislation that comes out of the Capitol or White House. Again, I'm not trying to make it political, but it's been much more exaggerated and pronounced under the current administration. Believe it or not, perceived government endorsement and/or condemnation does have some influence on people. If you look at the Kavanaugh debate again, the wise thing to do would've been to not defend him, nor Ford, and ask to see the full story before taking a side. While I personally don't want him to be in the SCOTUS, I believe he has the right to clear his name if he indeed did not do what we was alleged to do. However, when someone blindly takes his side, it's perceived to be male privilege, especially when another male steadfastly believes he did nothing wrong without substantial evidence. People do take notice of that and it sends a message that everything is okay and that Ford is merely a hysterical woman.
I'm not sure if you're following, but that's a slice of gender dynamics in action that you can see playing out. While this is a current event and movement in the United States, there's not much in the way of men seeking help, nor of removing the stigma of behavioral health. I think the absolute closest to any address of this issue have been some high-profile suicides of males within the past year or two, such as Chris Cornell, Anthony Bourdain and Chester Bennington, to name a few. When these happen, the media raises the issue that mental health needs to be discussed, but nothing ever comes of it.
When I hear the term "male privilege" I refuse to listen to a point, there's no privilege based on "sex", because both genders have different cons and pros
I rather have that stronger immune system than have to worry about sexual assault, the concept of rape and sexual assault is becoming more blurred and confusing anyways because of the rise of anti-sex feminism... Is more than just "simply crying" or sharing your feelings like I said. Most men suppress those feelings by submission and/or self-improvement to begin with, look at bit at the bigger picture...
And what point does bragging about female graduates serve when automation is on the rise anyways?
However, if women want to report their sexual abuse I see nothing wrong with that, but don't turn it into an issue of gender politics...
Location: The edge of the world and all of Western civilization
984 posts, read 1,191,900 times
Reputation: 1691
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luciano700
When I hear the term "male privilege" I refuse to listen to a point, there's no privilege based on "sex", because both genders have different cons and pros
I rather have that stronger immune system than have to worry about sexual assault, the concept of rape and sexual assault is becoming more blurred and confusing anyways because of the rise of anti-sex feminism... Is more than just "simply crying" or sharing your feelings like I said. Most men suppress those feelings by submission and/or self-improvement to begin with, look at bit at the bigger picture...
And what point does bragging about female graduates serve when automation is on the rise anyways?
However, if women want to report their sexual abuse I see nothing wrong with that, but don't turn it into an issue of gender politics...
Based on your reply, I see you missed the point of that response entirely. It was there to illustrate how you can see gender norms changing in one area (to point out that they can and do change)... but apparently, it went over your head. I would break it down and try to explain further by addressing what you've now brought up, but it's pretty apparent to me it would be for nothing and would be a waste of my time.
Exactly!! I came to realize this recently as well. Men have learned to detach our emotions to be able to provide for our families even in the worst times. If we all broke down who would make sure the family is taken care off? I could give 2 shhhs how I freaking feel if my family isn't taken care of simply priorities.
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