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Old 10-30-2018, 03:46 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
20,325 posts, read 14,547,380 times
Reputation: 39258

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So goodheathen, since women's expectations have become unreasonable, do you think that a woman who is disgusted by some man should swallow her disgust and date him anyways? Even though the idea of his touch makes her want to run screaming into the night, she should nevertheless date that guy?

How would he feel, if he realized that the woman he is getting feelings for felt disgusted by him?

Or is she somehow supposed to control her feelings or not have them if they are not the right feelings (according to the guy)...?

I mean, how is this supposed to work?

And frankly some of the loser men I've seen in relationships, the lowlifes I've seen reproducing, even, I'm afraid of the idea of women lowering our standards even further. I mean come on, I think we all know the film, "Idiocracy" seems pretty prophetic, but why hasten the day?

Truly it's odd to me, too, because I get such a feeling that this is an extension of the old thing of the nerdy guy wishing he could be like the jocks, wishing he could get the cheerleaders and hot chicks. It's weird in that such a man hasn't gotten past or over his high school identity and also insofar as nerds are considered hotter by women than ever before. I mean, we all know that the nerdy dude is the smart one who might make a fortune, right? Have you SEEN the women at Comic Con? Holy crap.

Ah, but are they? You know, frankly, I'm not sure that incels are or were actual geeky/nerdy guys. Their entitlement actually reminds me of some frat boys and sportsball meatheads I've encountered in life. You know, in high school, I hated the "popular" kids. I was a snarly little feral goth chick. I used to say the geeks would inherit the earth, and the stupid jocks would be serving us fries. Could it be, that the angriest of the incels, the ones I actually read talking about taking steroids and getting "swole" to attract "females"...could they in fact just be washed up high school sportsball jocks or fratboy types whose lives just never really took off? Because the shy, introverted, nerdy guys I know...do not have that spoiled rotten sense of entitlement.

But it seems like some of the shy-guys, well, the loneliness resonates enough that they get involved in it, too.

I dunno.

 
Old 10-30-2018, 04:06 PM
 
Location: Southwest Washington State
30,585 posts, read 25,041,229 times
Reputation: 50796
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metaphysique View Post
Yep. And plenty of these guys still get dates with the right attitude and outlook. I married one. He now has a girlfriend and he dated here and there before meeting her. I'm sure there were ups and downs, as he expressed in the past, but he eventually found himself in a relationship.

I also dated a few others who exhibited many of these traits. There are support groups for men and women who are on the spectrum and struggle with communication and interpersonal skills and confidence.

Acquiring a woman, as if women are just mere property, should not be the goal. Yes, I understand desiring companionship, even for men who exhibit these traits and characteristics. There's nothing inherently wrong with them. There *is* something wrong with thinking one is entitled to sex or a relationship because "that's how things used to be when women had fewer options" and were often obligated to date/court a man because she didn't have the means to support herself. "Women are pickier now than in the past." Women have more options, should they choose to exercise them, because they don't need to rely on a spouse for support. She can have actual preferences that she was discouraged from having in the past because the purpose of the family unit was not necessarily attraction, chemistry, likability, and compatibility, it served a far less romantic and warm fuzzy purpose.

Also, if Incels are that hung up on the departure from "traditional values" and gender roles and yearn for the days of a Proverbs 31 woman who is a helpmate and knows her place, they are free to look for a mate in conservative evangelical and fundamentalist churches. Back in the day when I was eyeball-deep in IFB nonsense us girls and young women were told looks should not be a priority and that it is vain and ungodly to focus on "worldly, carnal pleasures." Heck, my [estranged] father admitted there were better-looking women than my stepmom when he was doing the video dating service thing in the early 90s, but she was a "woman of god" so she fits the bill. Awesome.

On a more personal note, I have two kids, a daughter and a son, on the spectrum. They exhibit all the typical traits of social awkwardness and less-than-stellar communication skills, much like their father. I'll be damned if I raise them to think they can use their neurological traits and characteristics as an excuse to blame others for not giving them what they want. They, too, are not entitled to anyone's body. They can desire companionship should that be their thing, but I'll call them out on their nonsense if they start spouting claptrap about the evils of x and y because they're not getting attention...like the Staceys and Chads. They don't need to be a Stacey or Chad to be liked, and they shouldn't ever try to emulate them. :shudder: Their focus should be working on communication skills, gaining confidence and surrounding themselves with support from healthy-minded and compassionate people.
Good for you!

I think your kids will be fine.
 
Old 10-30-2018, 04:18 PM
 
1,532 posts, read 1,055,592 times
Reputation: 5207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovehound View Post

And like all people, women get to choose what standards they follow. All individuals get to do that as long as they don't coerce others into unwillingly going along.

Yep. Glad you agree.
 
Old 10-30-2018, 04:32 PM
 
Location: The point of no return, er, NorCal
7,400 posts, read 6,351,299 times
Reputation: 9636
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
So goodheathen, since women's expectations have become unreasonable, do you think that a woman who is disgusted by some man should swallow her disgust and date him anyways? Even though the idea of his touch makes her want to run screaming into the night, she should nevertheless date that guy?

How would he feel, if he realized that the woman he is getting feelings for felt disgusted by him?

Or is she somehow supposed to control her feelings or not have them if they are not the right feelings (according to the guy)...?

I mean, how is this supposed to work?

And frankly some of the loser men I've seen in relationships, the lowlifes I've seen reproducing, even, I'm afraid of the idea of women lowering our standards even further. I mean come on, I think we all know the film, "Idiocracy" seems pretty prophetic, but why hasten the day?

Truly it's odd to me, too, because I get such a feeling that this is an extension of the old thing of the nerdy guy wishing he could be like the jocks, wishing he could get the cheerleaders and hot chicks. It's weird in that such a man hasn't gotten past or over his high school identity and also insofar as nerds are considered hotter by women than ever before. I mean, we all know that the nerdy dude is the smart one who might make a fortune, right? Have you SEEN the women at Comic Con? Holy crap.

Ah, but are they? You know, frankly, I'm not sure that incels are or were actual geeky/nerdy guys. Their entitlement actually reminds me of some frat boys and sportsball meatheads I've encountered in life. You know, in high school, I hated the "popular" kids. I was a snarly little feral goth chick. I used to say the geeks would inherit the earth, and the stupid jocks would be serving us fries. Could it be, that the angriest of the incels, the ones I actually read talking about taking steroids and getting "swole" to attract "females"...could they in fact just be washed up high school sportsball jocks or fratboy types whose lives just never really took off? Because the shy, introverted, nerdy guys I know...do not have that spoiled rotten sense of entitlement.

But it seems like some of the shy-guys, well, the loneliness resonates enough that they get involved in it, too.

I dunno.
Right!? I was a hot woman in a short black skirt paired with fishnets and black boots wearing matching V for Vendetta shirts with my nerdy, dorky, geeky middle-aged boyfriend for a night at DragonCon one year. I have adult female friends that are just as into DC, CC, BlizzCon, etc., as my male friends. I've been active in forums and groups for girls and women with said interests since my high school years, long before it became trendy and cool. But...these Incels weren't/aren't interested because, up until more recent years, the kinds of girls and women involved in these interests and activities weren't the hot, super cute or Manic Pixie Dream Girl.

Incels want a Stacey. That's the archetype they idolize and covet.

Maybe if they'd put less focus on coveting a Stacey and devote more time cultivating meaningful connections with girls who are a lot like them and share commonalities with, they wouldn't be so angsty, caustic and insufferable. Stacey isn't into you. Move on and look for someone who might actually be into you.

I didn't witness this Incel nonsense in the spaces I traveled, including the countless Fet groups for like-minded nerds and geeks. Sure, there were "Doms" that really laid their Domness on thick, and I'm sure many use it as an excuse to be misogynistic asshats, but I quickly let them know I didn't play that way. If they didn't respect my boundaries, I bounced or blocked them.

I went out with guys who represent my type that struggled with insecurities and things of that sort. We all do. But they were not Incels by any stretch.

A lot of my friends are married to the above type, which makes these statements about "women" going for bad boy Chads so puzzling. It's such a narrow way to categorize men. They're either "Chads" or Timothys. Reducing men to two archetypes is a disservice to men.

Just because a woman doesn't give an Incel a chance doesn't mean she's shacking up and playing house with a Chad Radwell. For all you know, she could be getting involved with a Timothy that is NOT an Incel. Why would anyone date an Incel when there are actual kind guys out there?
 
Old 10-30-2018, 05:03 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
20,325 posts, read 14,547,380 times
Reputation: 39258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metaphysique View Post
Right!? I was a hot woman in a short black skirt paired with fishnets and black boots wearing matching V for Vendetta shirts with my nerdy, dorky, geeky middle-aged boyfriend for a night at DragonCon one year. I have adult female friends that are just as into DC, CC, BlizzCon, etc., as my male friends. I've been active in forums and groups for girls and women with said interests since my high school years, long before it became trendy and cool. But...these Incels weren't/aren't interested because, up until more recent years, the kinds of girls and women involved in these interests and activities weren't the hot, super cute or Manic Pixie Dream Girl.

Incels want a Stacey. That's the archetype they idolize and covet.

Maybe if they'd put less focus on coveting a Stacey and devote more time cultivating meaningful connections with girls who are a lot like them and share commonalities with, they wouldn't be so angsty, caustic and insufferable. Stacey isn't into you. Move on and look for someone who might actually be into you.

I didn't witness this Incel nonsense in the spaces I traveled, including the countless Fet groups for like-minded nerds and geeks. Sure, there were "Doms" that really laid their Domness on thick, and I'm sure many use it as an excuse to be misogynistic asshats, but I quickly let them know I didn't play that way. If they didn't respect my boundaries, I bounced or blocked them.

I went out with guys who represent my type that struggled with insecurities and things of that sort. We all do. But they were not Incels by any stretch.

A lot of my friends are married to the above type, which makes these statements about "women" going for bad boy Chads so puzzling. It's such a narrow way to categorize men. They're either "Chads" or Timothys. Reducing men to two archetypes is a disservice to men.

Just because a woman doesn't give an Incel a chance doesn't mean she's shacking up and playing house with a Chad Radwell. For all you know, she could be getting involved with a Timothy that is NOT an Incel. Why would anyone date an Incel when there are actual kind guys out there?
Well there is another thing though, that some very few of the nerdy guys have a problem doing. That whole condescending, "You cannot possibly be a real fan, listen, I'm smarter than you, let me mansplain the thing" attitude. I've seen a few cases where sadly, they thought they were flexing their brainmeat at a woman, and just drove her away with that insufferable air of smartypants superiority. If she didn't turn around and trounce them at their own game with mad geekery of her own.

When I think of nerdy men who reject nerdy women, but fantasize over "Staceys" that's kinda what I am imagining.

Yeah oddly, I only got a few of the so-called "Domly Dom" types messaging me. But I've run into more than a couple socially inept, pushy as heck sub guys, who have a closer-to-incel attitude than Dom guys seem to. I'm not into sub guys anyhow, in general. I'm a switch but prefer to top women if I'm gonna go there at all. I was at a talk about consent, really baring some heavy duty stuff from my past like a number of speakers there, and this arsehat decided to arrive late, and try to cruise for women. Creepy man, and I don't use that word lightly at all. He sent me a message that said he would help me get over my past and we should start talking right away so I could get more comfortable with topping. Dude? Some rando I just met is not getting all access to my head to help me get over my past traumas. mofo plz. I have pointedly ignored him since. Pushy. Ugh. Gross.

Oh, and you guys, you know what is more pathetic than an incel (I mean, the really obnoxious ones, not the ones I actually sympathize with)...? This dude, he was married and poly and he and his wife were both pretty sketchy sleazy people and she was constantly cruising for a woman for him so she could date and he wouldn't feel as jealous about it. And she would actually get mad that women didn't want to date her gross husband. I think they eventually moved out of state, they weren't having any luck here.

It takes all kinds...

But y'know, the community really does seem to be a great place for geeks and nerds...I sometimes say at parties that I've never in my life seen so many introverts being social.
 
Old 10-30-2018, 06:19 PM
 
Location: The ghetto
17,370 posts, read 8,962,351 times
Reputation: 13276
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metaphysique View Post
Incels want a Stacey. That's the archetype they idolize and covet.

Maybe if they'd put less focus on coveting a Stacey and devote more time cultivating meaningful connections with girls who are a lot like them and share commonalities with, they wouldn't be so angsty, caustic and insufferable. Stacey isn't into you. Move on and look for someone who might actually be into you.
They apparently don't want Becky.

I found this ridiculous (yet kind of interesting) image comparing Stacey and Becky.

https://i.imgur.com/2Gax49P.jpg

Seems to me there's nothing at all wrong with Becky as pictured and described in the image.
 
Old 10-30-2018, 06:21 PM
 
19,494 posts, read 12,122,052 times
Reputation: 26258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metaphysique View Post
Just because a woman doesn't give an Incel a chance doesn't mean she's shacking up and playing house with a Chad Radwell. For all you know, she could be getting involved with a Timothy that is NOT an Incel. Why would anyone date an Incel when there are actual kind guys out there?
They think any guy who isn't an incel is Chad.

I dated an incel from work once, even though I was made fun of for it. He was the worst behaved guy I ever went out with. He was mean and jealous and acted like a victim. He tried to make ME jealous by drooling over a "Stacy" at work in front of me, and said how she would never go out with him because she was out of his league. Said this to me, while we were dating! Pretty rude. We mostly spent time at his parents' house because he didn't like to go out. He tried to make me feel like I was immature or vapid for wanting to go out and dance or be social. When we did go out he would accuse me of eyeing other guys.

I put an end to that whole mistake and had the good fortune to meet a great, smokin' hot guy that summer who treated me one hundred percent better. We went out dancing, to the beach, parties, all kinds of things young people do.

So the incel was unattractive, with poor social skills AND mean even when he got a girl to like him. Then he got to watch Chad pick me up for lunch on a Ducati. He would have been right on some forum if they existed at the time, screaming about how horrible women are.
 
Old 10-30-2018, 06:31 PM
 
Location: The point of no return, er, NorCal
7,400 posts, read 6,351,299 times
Reputation: 9636
Quote:
Originally Posted by redplum33 View Post
They apparently don't want Becky.

I found this ridiculous (yet kind of interesting) image comparing Stacey and Becky.

https://i.imgur.com/2Gax49P.jpg

Seems to me there's nothing at all wrong with Becky as pictured and described in the image.
Interesting. It shouldn't be a surprise that a lot of women want to avoid Incels with attitudes like this. So angry and bitter over "hot" Staceys not wanting anything to do with them. All this talk about "women" when they clearly covet a Stacey and they're irate because their standards are too high.

If a Becky gives them a chance that must mean they settled. These dudes are not exactly prizes. They're delusional.
 
Old 10-30-2018, 06:50 PM
 
Location: The point of no return, er, NorCal
7,400 posts, read 6,351,299 times
Reputation: 9636
Quote:
Originally Posted by tamajane View Post
They think any guy who isn't an incel is Chad.

I dated an incel from work once, even though I was made fun of for it. He was the worst behaved guy I ever went out with. He was mean and jealous and acted like a victim. He tried to make ME jealous by drooling over a "Stacy" at work in front of me, and said how she would never go out with him because she was out of his league. Said this to me, while we were dating! Pretty rude. We mostly spent time at his parents' house because he didn't like to go out. He tried to make me feel like I was immature or vapid for wanting to go out and dance or be social. When we did go out he would accuse me of eyeing other guys.

I put an end to that whole mistake and had the good fortune to meet a great, smokin' hot guy that summer who treated me one hundred percent better. We went out dancing, to the beach, parties, all kinds of things young people do.

So the incel was unattractive, with poor social skills AND mean even when he got a girl to like him. Then he got to watch Chad pick me up for lunch on a Ducati. He would have been right on some forum if they existed at the time, screaming about how horrible women are.
Exactly. Even when/if a woman does give them a chance, it's not enough, because they still want the Stacey. She is the prize and the source of their misery. Invisible to all the sorority girls.

It's "women don't give us 'normal' guys a chance" and then when one does, it becomes "the women we idolize don't give us 'normal' guys a chance."

I wish they'd drop the BS of just wanting a normal girl to pay attention to them to make all their worries disappear. They don't want the attention and affection of just any woman. So this isn't about "women" at all. It's only ever been about their bitter resentment, envy, and hate for "Chads" and sense of entitlement.
 
Old 10-30-2018, 06:57 PM
 
2,483 posts, read 2,466,110 times
Reputation: 3353
Quote:
Originally Posted by redplum33 View Post
They apparently don't want Becky.

I found this ridiculous (yet kind of interesting) image comparing Stacey and Becky.

https://i.imgur.com/2Gax49P.jpg

Seems to me there's nothing at all wrong with Becky as pictured and described in the image.
Just saw ridiculous picture.

In one line they say Becky wears baggy clothes but then in another say she wears yoga pants, mind can't be made-up I guess.

With well intention, many here are trying to pick this (i.e. mindset) apart, but it's like trying to comb through the scribbling of a schizophrenic and trying rebut rationally. Probably better to give them medicine first, and then once they're lucid, try to show them how they're wrong.

Last edited by picardlx; 10-30-2018 at 07:06 PM..
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