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Old 01-15-2019, 06:35 AM
 
Location: Texas Hill Country
9,289 posts, read 5,091,927 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MillennialUrbanist View Post
When I saw the word "AFC", I thought of something completely unrelated: an abbreviation for "average frustrated chump". It's the mid 2000's equivalent (now deprecated) of what we now call a "beta male". Interestingly, it's the type of man very often seen as a dangerous threat by women, even though he generally lacks the physical strength to actually be a threat.

"AFC" as you used it sounds like an aviation term. I never heard it used that way before, but I'm sure it exists.
It could come from that, aviation, for I am a rated pilot but haven't been at the controls in years. Since I still have my ticket, though, I was able to log air photographer hours a few years ago.

HOWEVER, the creation of the term probably comes more from Metagaming's Ogre
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogre_(game)
(or maybe G.E.V.) where a reference to the G.E.V. goes something like "you may have stunned the crew but the machine will still try to kill you".

Okay, AFC is part of my "full combat suite" (everything I am is tied together to the defense of me) but recently I have found that quality of the G.E.V. is part of my dance makeup where if I am lost to the moves I am suppose to be doing, there is enough of an automatic control to keep me going.

An interesting sub routine to the AFC, however; in the last century, when I was being intimate with a lover, they unintentionally (how could they know, as complex as I am) triggered a response with similar AFC qualities.

"Get mad at me," they said and I am so controlled, so conditioned, never to get mad at a loved one that they triggered a withdraw response. So there I am in bed with them caught in conflict, between the suite calling for immediate withdraw but knowing to my lover, it would seem like I am rejecting them....and they did see it like that.......


......at least, that night.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sad_hotline View Post
The internet has allowed me to read a lot of anecdotes from women on how threatened/harassed/menaced men can make them. About how they need to tell their friends/family where they go, how they need to always have an escape plan, how they cross the street if they are alone and a man is walking towards them, etc.

Is this (planning around the possible threat of an aggressive male) a universal part of the female experience?

As a young man, it's really jarring to hear, as I rarely worry about my safety. Is there a change you would like to see in men, in general?
For me, that comes more from being a pilot and a LEO.

As a pilot, I file a flight plan to let them know when to send out the search planes. It get rather intense from being a pilot for what I learned being a co pilot to an IFR pilot in that you can close out your flight plan when you are on the instrument landing system of your destination but that is unwise since you may crash, still, between the ILS and the end of the runway.

LIKEWISE, when I check my mail at the road of the ranch, I am tempted to send my "landing signal" to my co workers and friends, but I delay until I am actually in the house, see that my home base is safe.

As a LEO back in the late Cold War, I started making regular check ins. Why? I was reading crime reports and it occurred to me how long I might be missing before someone started looking for me. Well, that and I was admiring Jaclyn Smith at the time and there was a note how she called her father weekly (or was it nightly?).

So-o....just because I am a woman or because of what I do?

Now, a thing or two. First, I think I made a post a few years ago about sending out a landing signal.......and got raked over the coals for it, so the world probably doesn't see things the way I do.

Secondly, yesterday, I got a chance to use some of my evasion patterns such as pirouettes and search turns. He wasn't after me and in a way, it was "fun" to let the combat suite handle it, inputting this and that "change of course".
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoMoreSnowForMe View Post
Yes. This is a normal part of being a woman.

What really needs to be changed is the perception of who is responsible for any kind of assault, etc., against a woman. In other words, the world needs to stop blaming the victim for the behavior of the perpetrator, based on the fact that she happened to be somewhere, or was wearing a certain type of clothing, or was drinking etc.

We don't blame victims of other crimes, usually, for the behavior of the perpetrator. For instance, if a person gets robbed in a bad neighborhood, we don't normally tell them they deserved it or they don't deserve our sympathy or they don't deserve to prosecute the robber based on their stupidity for being in a bad neighborhood......
We-ll......sort of.

Where do divide the innocent from the experienced and the trained for if I bungle, get attacked in an assignment, there will be no doubt those who say, "You should have known better!".

FURTHER, I exist in a world where there are times of situations one finds themselves in...........and situations one places themselves in. I have friends who are SJW, who say that when someone is being oppressed, one should go to their aid. It is a very big question, though, for me that should I insert myself, make myself a target, and then, potentially have to do a full weapons release in my defense.......did I cause that?

Quote:
We need to put the blame of the behavior of the perpetrators - on the perpetrators. And stop blaming the victims for supposedly causing someone else's behavior.
I would agree but let me ask this.......does this apply to cops as well?

Quote:

Where else in the world is this remotely reasonable? What? That stranger ran up to you and shot you? Well, what was it about you that made him shoot you? You must have done something wrong if that random stranger shot you, so what did you do?
Well, that is part of what I do, victim analysis, what made this person a target? That probably gets back to those on my side saying "You should have known better.".

Now, on the other side of the coin, understanding the workings of that above, I know how to change "the picture" a little bit so "those who feel me near, close their blinds and change their minds".

Quote:
Can you imagine if this is how every victim of a crime was treated?
Such as cops?

Last edited by TamaraSavannah; 01-15-2019 at 07:12 AM..
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Old 01-15-2019, 06:50 AM
 
5,090 posts, read 5,626,951 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilliesPhan2013 View Post

We have a lot to work on as men. The best thing we can do to start is listen: no interrupting, no doubting, no mansplaining, and no "not all men" statements.

Some of the things you'll hear from the women in your lives will horrify you.

Then, we can take action. I do what I can by not making unsolicited contact with women, walking to the other side of the street/slowing my pace on the same street if it's late at night or if nobody else is on the same street, and by always agreeing to meet the women I date in public.
^^^THIS^^^

A great beginning would be for ALL men to ask ALL the women in their lives for THEIR STORIES.

Ask your women friends, your girlfriends, your wives, your mothers, your grandmothers, your aunts, and your women cousins for THEIR STORIES.

I PROMISE you will hear STORIES of knowing they were in danger, STORIES of close calls, STORIES of what they do to feel safe, STORIES of the constant need of keeping their guard up, and STORIES of assault.
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Old 01-15-2019, 06:56 AM
 
Location: SW Florida
9,492 posts, read 4,267,183 times
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One of my favorite books is The Gift of Fear by Gavin somebody. It tells us to listen to our gut and to be aware of our surroundings. It also drives me crazy when I see women running with earbuds in listening to music or walking while looking at their cell phones. Like was already said a man who has nefarious thoughts is more likely going to choose the easiest target and I choose not to make myself an easy target.

When I get gas I take my keys out and lock the doors as thieves have been pulling up alongside women, opening the passenger door and stealing their purse while they are pumping gas. I never leave my garage door open and if I'm mowing the yard I make sure everything is locked up with my key on a elastic thing on my arm. I am always aware of my surroundings and if it looks like someone is following me while I'm driving I go to the police station, NOT my home. While I'm not paranoid I am cautious and I've managed to not be a victim in my 64 years. Have I just been lucky? Who knows.
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Old 01-15-2019, 07:21 AM
 
Location: Texas Hill Country
9,289 posts, read 5,091,927 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiluvr1228 View Post
One of my favorite books is The Gift of Fear by Gavin somebody. It tells us to listen to our gut and to be aware of our surroundings. It also drives me crazy when I see women running with earbuds in listening to music or walking while looking at their cell phones. Like was already said a man who has nefarious thoughts is more likely going to choose the easiest target and I choose not to make myself an easy target.
Well, A, B, and C.

A: When I was going through rape crisis training, one of our instructors told us how she once was the innocent kind who thought it would never happen to her.

B: When I was in the service on quarterdeck watches, I never stood still, I didn't huddle by the podium or next to heater, but constantly paced the deck, was never in the same location for long. That may have been a reason (I think the primary one was that I was not popular) they put me on beach master watch that night in the Italian port.

C: I learned my lesson long ago with that jogger. He should have never got that close. So now, always, it is head up, eyes searching, doing pirouette turns at least twice each day.

Last edited by TamaraSavannah; 01-15-2019 at 07:34 AM..
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Old 01-15-2019, 10:42 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiluvr1228 View Post
One of my favorite books is The Gift of Fear by Gavin somebody. It tells us to listen to our gut and to be aware of our surroundings. It also drives me crazy when I see women running with earbuds in listening to music or walking while looking at their cell phones. Like was already said a man who has nefarious thoughts is more likely going to choose the easiest target and I choose not to make myself an easy target.

When I get gas I take my keys out and lock the doors as thieves have been pulling up alongside women, opening the passenger door and stealing their purse while they are pumping gas. I never leave my garage door open and if I'm mowing the yard I make sure everything is locked up with my key on a elastic thing on my arm. I am always aware of my surroundings and if it looks like someone is following me while I'm driving I go to the police station, NOT my home. While I'm not paranoid I am cautious and I've managed to not be a victim in my 64 years. Have I just been lucky? Who knows.
Me, too. But, I've been very close to being a victim many, many times. And there have been some situations where I'm unclear because of having been under the influence - and some of those times I believe I was given drugs without my knowledge.

What saved me many times is that my dad was a cop and he told me to trust my instincts. This was a very long time ago, so obviously, this kind of problem goes way back.

He taught me that if you get a hinky feeling, to trust it - hands down. If you are walking down a street and you see a group of guys on the street, or even just one guy, but you have a weird feeling - to turn around and take a different route.

Also, when you go to get into your vehicle, get in and immediately lock the door. This has saved me several times, where some random stranger all of a sudden, out of nowhere, tried my door handle right after I got into my car.

But, I'd like to go back to the argument that any of this is the woman's fault (or another gender, if appropriate). We are not responsible for being attacked because we worked somewhere after dark, or we were at a bus stop in a bad neighborhood, or at a party in a short skirt.

Women (or anyone else) NEVER "ask" to be raped. If someone rapes someone else - the ENTIRE blame is on the person who rapes.

Nobody gets to say that they were tempted into committing a crime because of where the victim was or what the victim was wearing - for rape or for any other crime.

Is a violent robber, who hurts people to get what's in their purse, etc., allowed to be found innocent because the person who was robbed was stupid? They didn't lock their gate, or they wore expensive jewelry in public, etc.

No.

So, why does society continue to put blame on victims of sexual assault?

There is zero reason behind it. It needs to be changed.
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Old 01-16-2019, 06:27 AM
 
Location: Texas Hill Country
9,289 posts, read 5,091,927 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoMoreSnowForMe View Post
..........Is a violent robber, who hurts people to get what's in their purse, etc., allowed to be found innocent because the person who was robbed was stupid? They didn't lock their gate, or they wore expensive jewelry in public, etc.

No.

So, why does society continue to put blame on victims of sexual assault?

There is zero reason behind it. It needs to be changed.

Our world, unfortunately, is not so one sided but rather places the blame on the non actor in several situations.


I had an antennae platform on a ship, 50-60 feet above the waterline, where the instrumentation had been removed for repair. Only people with business should be up there but I was required to put a rope across that open space to the air.


Why?


A lawsuit counter action. If I left that space open and someone jumped from there, in court, it could be seen as I was inviting them to jump from there since I left the way open.


Or how about carrying a gun as a civilian? As a civilian, we are expected not to go to the places where we expect to need a gun, that we should avoid those places. We carry a gun all the time, every place we can so if it should happen that we need the gun, that day was like any other day. There was no premedition on that day that we would have to shoot someone. If we have to shoot someone then when we end up in court (and we will, because someone will at least sue), we don't want the opposing counsel to be able to show premedition.


"So, Ms. Ounce, on the day you shot the son of my clients, you feared him, so you strapped on your gun on that particular day so you could shoot him." It may not have quite gone down that way but if he can get the jury to believe that interpretation, we-ll..............


You see, it's not just sexual assault, it's not only because we are women.


There is the natural world......and then, there is society.
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Old 01-16-2019, 04:35 PM
 
201 posts, read 71,370 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coschristi View Post
I say it all the time here on CD: I love men. I really do. I love your warrior spirit, your territorial protectiveness & your instinctive drive to provide. I want for you to hunt for me, build for me & fight for me.
.
I don't want to be put on a pedestal. That tends to make people think I should always be perfect, never do anything for myself, be who THEY want to think I am or should be rather than who I am. I don't want anyone else to be put on a pedestal, either. It's not healthy for any of us.

I want to be able to hunt, build, and fight for myself because there may not always be a man around to do it for me... or I may even enjoy it. And if there is a man around, I want us to hunt, build, or fight together instead of me sitting useless off to the side. If someone attacks me, I want ANYONE to defend me. If someone else gets attacked, I want to defend them, not stand there looking around for a man to step in. And I don't want to be that woman in all the movies who watches the man being attacked and stands motionless next to a baseball bat, watching and screaming and still waiting for him to save me.

Mess with someone a woman loves-- whether it's her children, her SO, or her friends-- and talk to me about a warrior spirit, a territorial protectiveness, an instinctive drive to provide. Where do you think the "mama bear" stereotype *comes* from?

I may not be stronger than a man but that doesn't mean I want to be required to give up. I may well go down, but I hope I always go down fighting.

See, we don't live in a perfect world where every woman is a pretty pretty princess who wants to stay home and have babies and every man is a He-man who wants to go out and fight the Viking invaders and kill lions with his bare hands. For that matter, we don't live in a world where every woman and man is even capable of those things. Sometimes a person has to take care of her-or-himself, whether it's women mowing the lawn or men cooking. And sometimes a person likes things that aren't in that narrow box of what is "allowed" for them to like or be capable of according to what is between their legs.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pretty in black View Post
Resting B*tch Face and pepper spray work great as a deterrent.
My RBF works only on people I wouldn't mind talking to. Annoying men who want me to smile, people who want to talk about the length of my hair, and people who want to think I work at every store I walk into are completely unfazed by it. My mom always used to explain it as me looking so approachable... then ten minutes later she'd complain that I come across as cold and stand-offish. LOL.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TamaraSavannah View Post
Now, on other things, go ahead and mansplaining because these days, I see people trying to present information, they get accused of mansplaining, and the information does not get passed. To me, when I see that happen, the response I would like to see is, ".....then die in ignorance."
Well, no, that's not really what mansplaining is. Mansplaining is when the information does *not need* to be passed, but a man assumes a woman doesn't know. Even if she has stated or demonstrated that she does, or at the very least, has neither stated nor demonstrated that she doesn't and would like his input.

Mansplaining is when you are putting air in the tires of your car and a man walks over and, without asking or despite your assertion that you know what you're doing, explains to you how to do each step a split second after you actually do it.

Mansplaining is when a man tells a woman why she is wrong about, or tries to tell her in detail about, a field in which she is an expert-- sometimes even after having learned she is an expert and admitting that he knows very little.

Mansplaining is when a man tries to tell a woman how she feels or should feel despite the fact that he is neither a woman nor inside her head.

No one will "die in ignorance" in these cases because there is no ignorance on the part of the woman-- though there might be on the part of a man who wants to think she's clueless.

And even if she doesn't know? Unless she says she does, leave her alone. That goes for anyone. Unless they're about to do something dangerous like throw a match into a pool of gas, if you ask if they want your knowledge and they say they don't, respect that. My mom always asked me why, when she did what she considered "giving advice," I called it "lecturing." I had to point out to her that advice is solicited; lectures are probably neither needed nor wanted but forced upon a person anyway.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Auraliea View Post
I attribute it more to it being about them, than me.
Yes, that's often what it's about. They want to talk to a woman they find attractive, they want to have sex with a woman they want to have sex with, etc. etc. Never mind what *she* wants or doesn't. I daresay most crime is absolutely more about the criminal than the victim-- whether it's someone who has decided they want your cell phone or want you dead, they are thinking about themselves and disregarding you. (For that matter, so are a lot of behaviors we consider antisocial, right down to conversations-- your Aunt Frida wants to advise you that you'd look so much nicer if you cut your hair regardless of whether you want to be hassled about your hair; your friend Jim wants to tell you all about his fishing weekend in excruciating detail even if you'd rather crawl into a woodchipper, your coworker Rob has decided he now wants to be done with this conversation and ends the phone call when you're mid-sentence.)

The problem is that society has far more taught men that they can have what they want and women that they should provide what men want, than it has taught thieves they can take what they want and victims that they should provide what thieves want...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow View Post
I'm not sure what other kind of "escape plan" you're talking about, unless maybe you're talking about those phony phone calls from the friend with the sudden emergency that you planned in advance as a chicken spit way out of a date you're not enjoying. That's not "escape" because it's dangerous, it's escape because the person is too spineless to say, "Yeah, you know, this just isn't working for me. Let's wrap this up."
It *can* be dangerous. I've known people who've found out the hard way. And you don't always know if it will be unless you try it and find out... and it will suck if you're wrong. Same for people who lie about having a boyfriend-- sometimes they do it because that's the only "no" a man will understand. So no, it's not always the "chicken spit" way out. Sometimes it's the safe way out. And sometimes, it's simply the "easy" way out if you saying "hey, let's end this date" will lead to 20 minutes of the other person whining and begging you to stick around. Life's too short and if you want to avoid that kind of hassle? Why not? (We live in a society, at least in the U.S., where people are so heavily taught to be "nice," not to be "mean" or "hurt someone's feelings" that they won't even speak out to people being jerks, whether it's the guy in the "10 items or less" line with a full cart, or the guy harassing someone else. Women get this "be nice" training even more. A person's supposed to overcome a lifetime of conditioning in order to end a date?)

Besides, right after this you admit you will pretend to tie your shoe or something so someone doesn't have to know you're trying to avoid them. How is that any more honest? And what's so bad about choosing evasion in these cases, if it hurts no one and accomplishes your goal?
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Old 01-16-2019, 05:43 PM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
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I don't think most men have any desire to harm women but there are always exceptions. As physically vulnerable as women are they need to be careful and alert.
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Old 01-17-2019, 04:22 AM
 
Location: Texas Hill Country
9,289 posts, read 5,091,927 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K12144 View Post
.........
Well, no, that's not really what mansplaining is. Mansplaining is when the information does *not need* to be passed, but a man assumes a woman doesn't know. Even if she has stated or demonstrated that she does, or at the very least, has neither stated nor demonstrated that she doesn't and would like his input.

Mansplaining is when you are putting air in the tires of your car and a man walks over and, without asking or despite your assertion that you know what you're doing, explains to you how to do each step a split second after you actually do it.

Mansplaining is when a man tells a woman why she is wrong about, or tries to tell her in detail about, a field in which she is an expert-- sometimes even after having learned she is an expert and admitting that he knows very little.

Mansplaining is when a man tries to tell a woman how she feels or should feel despite the fact that he is neither a woman nor inside her head.

No one will "die in ignorance" in these cases because there is no ignorance on the part of the woman-- though there might be on the part of a man who wants to think she's clueless.

And even if she doesn't know? Unless she says she does, leave her alone. That goes for anyone. Unless they're about to do something dangerous like throw a match into a pool of gas, if you ask if they want your knowledge and they say they don't, respect that. My mom always asked me why, when she did what she considered "giving advice," I called it "lecturing." I had to point out to her that advice is solicited; lectures are probably neither needed nor wanted but forced upon a person anyway.
.......

Maybe it wasn't that originally........but that is what it has turned into. It's what I've been accused of, when "undercover" as a boy on the Net, and I offer my opinion on something as a boy.


I was trying to tell someone not to open a refrigerator in a power out situation, such as during storm conditions and I get back lashed with that. As far as I concerned, then that is a "then die in ignorance" condition........or, if one prefers, shrugging Bug's shoulders after he has tried to tell Sam that he is digging toward oblivion.
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Old 01-19-2019, 11:08 PM
 
Location: Erie, PA
2,506 posts, read 1,046,778 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sad_hotline View Post
The internet has allowed me to read a lot of anecdotes from women on how threatened/harassed/menaced men can make them. About how they need to tell their friends/family where they go, how they need to always have an escape plan, how they cross the street if they are alone and a man is walking towards them, etc.

Is this (planning around the possible threat of an aggressive male) a universal part of the female experience?

As a young man, it's really jarring to hear, as I rarely worry about my safety. Is there a change you would like to see in men, in general?
I've only felt outright menaced by a man once and that was years ago when I was raped. It was an odd thing since he was a family friend and should have been 'safe' but of course the statistics show that in most cases of rape, the person who is raped knows the rapist. For several months after that, I would cross the street when I saw a man coming towards me and would not go out alone--both very uncharacteristic of me since I have always been independent. I also was pretty hostile towards men I am ashamed to say for those several months.

Very, very few men are out to harass, intimidate or threaten. I don't plan my life around the possible threat of an aggressive male anymore than I plan it around being struck by lightening. Men walking towards me on the street do not concern me and I don't feel that the majority of men are out to make women miserable. I know a few men who are jerks; I also know a few women who are jerks. Neither sex has the market cornered on sainthood or asshattery.

It's just commonsense to let family know where you are going and when to expect you back, and just a common courtesy. I usually just let them know I'm going 'out' and I'll be back in a few hours or whatever the time is.

The biggest change I would like to see is for both sexes to stop stereotyping each other.
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