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Old 01-14-2019, 03:58 PM
 
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A lot of people have 'tells' that they do subconciously when they're lying. When I was little, my mom knew when I was lying because I would twist my clothes up in my fingers. My brother would try to cover his face up with whatever was handy.


When my youngest son was trying to evade the truth, he'd say "Why do you ask?" lol
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Old 01-14-2019, 04:09 PM
 
Location: Colorado
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Well as one would surmise perhaps by my post, I fully admit to having lied in my life.

I'd even say I'm skilled at it. Survival skill, I learned at a young age, that I can keep a secret if I want to, and if it makes the difference between erratic and unstable parents leaving me alone, or having an unpredictable, maybe violent reaction...I know what I was going to do. Tell them whatever they seemed to want to hear.

But what I learned about lying, is that when you do it, it creates a secret you have to keep. Any time I've ever lied, I've felt a pull to share the truth with SOMEONE...anyone...just somebody. But if you do, then you create a weak spot in your security. The lie is compromised. The only way to pull it off, is to tell no one ever, and integrate it into your life story as though it's reality. This is hard to do. It's a burden to bear. Which means that I'm not likely to use that tactic, unless I feel I have very great need. I think that the reason many people get caught when they lie, is that they give in to the urge to tell someone, or they don't think things through in terms of ways their story could be busted.

So. Yes, I have told lies. But it's a thing I only do with great need, when I really believe that the consequences of honesty are so dangerous that it merits the bearing of a secret. And those times of significance that I have done so, those things I will carry to my grave. And thankfully I have reduced greatly, my need to interact with unsafe people, which means I am far safer telling the truth and unlikely to feel a need to lie.

Like many things that people consider to be generally immoral, I think that there are extenuating circumstances, like when you need to protect the actual safety of yourself or someone else, from someone who means real harm.
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Old 01-14-2019, 04:32 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
So in my opinion, someone who has lied, and who can be honest about it, is more honest than someone who has lied but insists they never did and never would.
DH tells me that in the quarter-century I have known him, he has never lied to me or to anyone.

I told him not to try that on me because it's simply not credible. No one has never lied. He shut up after that.

This is a man who sat in a marriage counseling session with me and lied to the counselor to make himself look like a victim of his big bad wife. And the counselor (male) ate it up with a spoon.
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Old 01-14-2019, 05:58 PM
 
1,967 posts, read 463,882 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goodheathen View Post
https://www.elitedaily.com/life/cult...erstand/964824

The reasons make sense to me, but I'm not one of those people. Only once in recent years have I even pranked somebody.

Is anyone here brave enough to speak about it from a liar's perspective?

Can people like that learn to find satisfaction in telling the truth?
There's a difference between the possessing the ability to answer a question with a straight answer and having diarrhea of the mouth.
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Old 01-14-2019, 06:54 PM
 
Location: Southwest Washington State
19,871 posts, read 13,079,032 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
Well as one would surmise perhaps by my post, I fully admit to having lied in my life.

I'd even say I'm skilled at it. Survival skill, I learned at a young age, that I can keep a secret if I want to, and if it makes the difference between erratic and unstable parents leaving me alone, or having an unpredictable, maybe violent reaction...I know what I was going to do. Tell them whatever they seemed to want to hear.

But what I learned about lying, is that when you do it, it creates a secret you have to keep. Any time I've ever lied, I've felt a pull to share the truth with SOMEONE...anyone...just somebody. But if you do, then you create a weak spot in your security. The lie is compromised. The only way to pull it off, is to tell no one ever, and integrate it into your life story as though it's reality. This is hard to do. It's a burden to bear. Which means that I'm not likely to use that tactic, unless I feel I have very great need. I think that the reason many people get caught when they lie, is that they give in to the urge to tell someone, or they don't think things through in terms of ways their story could be busted.

So. Yes, I have told lies. But it's a thing I only do with great need, when I really believe that the consequences of honesty are so dangerous that it merits the bearing of a secret. And those times of significance that I have done so, those things I will carry to my grave. And thankfully I have reduced greatly, my need to interact with unsafe people, which means I am far safer telling the truth and unlikely to feel a need to lie.

Like many things that people consider to be generally immoral, I think that there are extenuating circumstances, like when you need to protect the actual safety of yourself or someone else, from someone who means real harm.
Well, I do believe in extenuating circumstances. If you lie to save your life, or to protect someone, or to lessen a burden to someone, then I can accept that. And sometimes a white lie saves a person hurt feelings.

But to lie because it is fun? Or because it makes you seem interesting? Or because it gets you off the hook for a foul up? Then, I donít want to know you. I canít trust you.

As to your postings about lying and then having to keep the secret of your lie forever, I agree. Much mental effort will have to be exerted to truly keep the secret.
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Old Yesterday, 12:37 AM
 
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We have the liar gene on my dad's side of the family, and apparently on my mom's side too. My brother and my cousin are homozygous for it (me and my dad, are heterozygous, which means we can if we want to and are pretty good at it).


My brother couldn't tell the truth if his life depended on it. He'd lie about anything - just for the heck of it. That's a homozygote.


I do it occasionally; for example, if I'm curious about someone's intelligence regarding something I'll tell a lie about it (it's a good test if you do it right). It's also a way I evaluate someone's paranoia index (I stretch it a bit to see how far I can go before they get wary of what they're hearing and start showing signs of doubt)


It's a two way street. If I asked my dad a question (like, "what is a warm front?" and he didn't know the answer, he'd just make up an answer, (it took me 40 years to unlearn all that BS he told me as a kid)


An important feature of a real congenital liar is, yes, you do it right off the top of your head. There is no forethought. It must get synthesized and flow from your lips in milliseconds. There is no facial expression associated with it. You must have a sense of zero interest in saying something factually true in that particular situation. The lies, almost always relate to trite things that are of no real consequence.


And, yes, it does give you a thrill once you realized you've gotten away with it. Lying can be fun!

Last edited by TwinbrookNine; Yesterday at 12:47 AM..
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Old Yesterday, 01:52 AM
 
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I think sometimes someone close to a person, usually a significant other, will not give direct answers, talks around questions, and even obfuscates because they want to inflict a type of gaslighting.

I have an ex boyfriend of long ago with whom I am still friends, but not romantically involved with, who goes through periods where he will not give direct answers - which drives me crazy. It's a combination of not giving direct answers, obfuscating, and maybe a form of gaslighting for fun.

But now that he is age 65, I think his mind is not always working well - I think he may have beginning of slight dementia combined with his mental acuity starting to fail along with some brain confusion/distortion, and distortions of perception.
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Old Yesterday, 02:57 AM
 
Location: Tucson/Nogales
16,708 posts, read 20,407,244 times
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How about this for a mind-bender: the unconscious liar is the biggest liar of all!
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Old Yesterday, 09:50 AM
 
293 posts, read 440,349 times
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Had to deal with this in elderly relative in another state recently. For their whole life, they gaslit, made stuff up, distorted, gossiped, hoarded information, anything to maintain dominance, even if it was massively destructive to the target person. This made it very hard to help as their physical condition deteriorated. By the time we understood how bad it was, the person had serious infections that they had been hiding. By the time we got emergency help for them, it was critical and social services investigated to find out why we hadn't done something sooner. When someone gaslights and hides things, I don't know how one is supposed to help them if they have not been declared incompetent. When control is the most important of all things to someone, they will fight for it even when it becomes life threatening.

The relative passed away and then came the job of untangling all the hidden financial webs. I still don't know if we have found all the accounts, which are needed for another deteriorating relative's care.

I have this to say for any who like to lie and obfuscate: when it comes down to illness or old age, it's not weakness to give up some of the control to relatives who want to help. They can't help if they can't figure out what is going on due to a convoluted spider's web of baloney.
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Old Yesterday, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Southwest Washington State
19,871 posts, read 13,079,032 times
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We have in public life, the perfect example of a congenital liar.

We’ve all known congenital liars. Do you trust them? Would you trust them to tell you the truth about something important?

What about when you sense that something is wrong. You ask, “What’s wrong?” You get a lie. Or you get an answer you cannot trust. There are a million ways to be untruthful.

I confess that I have lied, and convincingly. But now, I try to be truthful. And one can always choose to keep quiet.
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