Is the male dominance hierarchy/instinct responsible for 90% of social issues out there? (woman, college)

[Phil75230]

Originally Posted by Chicago South Sider

At the end of the day strength rules. It's really that simple. So, if you're waiting for a world where weakness rules you will be waiting for a very long time. Nature is what it is.

That's not an answer. I asked you what makes being a beta worthy of disrespect.

As for your Nature arguments, we are not in 10,000 BC. We've found other ways since then to gather resources besides being strong, street smart, brave, etc. Most advances we've made since we've had civilization worthy of the name have come from betas.

For proof, look at Athens and Sparta. Sparta was probably the most "alpha male" society there was. Athens was much more beta-friendly. But in the long run, Athens produced more ideas that humanity values than Sparta. All Sparta had were good soldiers and good generals. Athens produced ideas that continue to have great influence even to this day - including the idea that humans can figure out the workings of nature. That post shows you completely missed the fact that any reason there might have been for holding "betas" in contempt no longer exists. The higher the level of technology gets, the truer this becomes.

[bookspage]

Originally Posted by Chicago South Sider

Women are every bit as flawed as men. Only a fool can't see that.

Yep. Women and girls are worse to each other than men are to each other. Their aggression just takes different forms than the male forms.

I'll take a male boss or co-worker any day over a woman.

[Luciano700]

Originally Posted by Phil75230

I say it is mostly about weakness, and in fact society still having a blind spot that not only is contempt for weakness and difference in general a source of bigotry, but contempt for weakness is a bigotry itself. More than that, this late philosopher argued that this attitude's actually the beating core of Naziism

Our Contempt for Weakness: Nazi Norms and Values - and Our Own (English edition). Harald Ofstad. 1989.



In some ways, we are (organized civilization forcing us to overrule our basebrain animal instincts for the sake of the group, or at least using the group to check the aberrant individual's behavior). In other ways we're becoming more individualistic (less discrimination against traditionally marginalized groups). AT this point, I say it's a wash.

Hold on, isn't identity politics killing your claim?

[Luciano700]

Originally Posted by Phil75230

That's not an answer. I asked you what makes being a beta worthy of disrespect.

As for your Nature arguments, we are not in 10,000 BC. We've found other ways since then to gather resources besides being strong, street smart, brave, etc. Most advances we've made since we've had civilization worthy of the name have come from betas.

For proof, look at Athens and Sparta. Sparta was probably the most "alpha male" society there was. Athens was much more beta-friendly. But in the long run, Athens produced more ideas that humanity values than Sparta. All Sparta had were good soldiers and good generals. Athens produced ideas that continue to have great influence even to this day - including the idea that humans can figure out the workings of nature. That post shows you completely missed the fact that any reason there might have been for holding "betas" in contempt no longer exists. The higher the level of technology gets, the truer this becomes.

Til another war breaks out of course

Should we also socially engineer other animals to get ****ed by not following the natural order? I am not saying a beta male should be bullied to gunpoint, but at the end of the day a society can't really function properly without the natural order.

[covener]

Originally Posted by Luciano700

Why isn't this ever brought up in more "evolution" talk

Because it's useless circular gibberish.

[LLCNYC]

Originally Posted by bookspage

Have you seen the way middle school girls treat each other?

Coincidentally, I believe the OP is like 15?

[Luciano700]

Originally Posted by LLCNYC

Coincidentally, I believe the OP is like 15?

As someone who has dealt with female bullies as of recent I can confirm I know what he's talking about.

[Phil75230]

Originally Posted by Luciano700

Til another war breaks out of course

Should we also socially engineer other animals to get ****ed by not following the natural order? I am not saying a beta male should be bullied to gunpoint, but at the end of the day a society can't really function properly without the natural order.

Humans have rewritten the rulebook a bit, so to speak. Yes, we are animals, but our brains, opposable thumbs, speech abilities, etc. all let us transcend the animals to a considerable, if imperfect, degree. Namely, we've hacked into the programming, so to speak. Manipulated living and nonliving material so that we can control (however incompletely) what happens to us. So we've found other ways of making a living that don't involve brute animal force and predatory cunning. So you don't have to be an alpha to widen the gap between our present state and extinction. In fact, all of this is what makes humans "human" and not just another primate. Like I said, we've hacked into nature's playbook, and even edited it to a small extent, so to speak.

[stan4]

Males are responsible for nearly all of society's ills up to this point but only because they are the ones who have had the power.

I'm not at all convinced it would be much different if women had all the power.

[sylentvoyce]

Originally Posted by Luciano700

Would you say other herd or social animals have a similar dynamic?

Either way male competition is definitely becoming a thing of the past, we men have increased our groupthink a bit in the last couple of generations.

I would say that could be accurate. I think other animals are obviously less evolved than we are, and as such, have a less complex form of the same thing.

In the animal kingdom, certain 'duties' or 'social norms' (for lack of better words) are evident by gender. Male animals tend to be prettier, fight each other for affection from a female. Females in some cases are bigger and stronger, forcing males into the subservient role. Hell, even Black Widow spiders kill their mates.

Now these traits I used as examples are the built in evolutionary tendencies of these animals, and not conscious choices by any stretch of the imagination. But some comparisons can be seen in humans. Women carry children where men cannot. Men can generally build bigger muscles than women can.

Some of who we are is built into our biology, and I think this civilization carries some remnants of our animal selves. but, we've evolved enough to challenge these traits and make conscious change to them.

Very intriguing topic.