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Old 07-03-2019, 10:13 AM
 
Location: Colorado
11,828 posts, read 7,297,740 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by augiedogie View Post
Men are more sexually driven by their hormones. Unfortunately, peoples natural inclination toward evil means that drive manifests itself in evil action.
I disagree. I think that women have sexual drives and I don't give men a pass because of "nature" or "biology" or "hormones." As a teenager I craved sex with a fierceness, as a pregnant woman I did too, as a 40 year old with a pleasing partner, I cannot get enough. Sometimes hormonal changes contributed, sometimes that's just how it was.

The people I know who behave in less sexual ways are trained by very powerful social programming, to suppress, ignore, hide, or disregard their urges. And I know that many women tell me that the less sexual satisfaction they are able to get, the less interest or desire they have. This is true for me as well. So if I have a partner who does not really ring my bell so to speak, my levels of desire will wane. But the more (good) sex I am getting, the more I want.

It is more common for women to be socialized to pretend that we are non-sexual. That sex is a thing men want and we give. But that is very harmful, because if a woman acknowledges that she does want it, if she has not learned to respect that a man is within his rights to say NO to it, then she might behave very badly. But again, social training plays a part. What does it look like when a female behaves badly? Sure, I was the aggressive one as a teenager and I've told that story, but more common is for women to get angry at boyfriends or men they like, or perhaps even more commonly, to turn it into an attack they wage on themselves. Tearing our self esteem over our desirability into bleeding little pieces because a man we wanted didn't want us back.

We're trained often enough to make other people comfortable, to be agreeable, at our own expense.

But then, as a factor of who violates consent more, in terms of going after youth... I think that's just down to what we are programmed to seek in partners more often. Most women would cite muscular physique, or advanced intelligence, keen wit, financial security, a sense that a partner could provide or protect or at least be a perfect companion on their level...an adult woman is more apt to find this with an adult man. Men are, by nature or nurture, seeking looks, fertility, "purity" or "innocence" (a preference for inexperience, and lack of other men in her history or her present)...a teenage girl is at least physically, a reasonable candidate for breeding reasons, and for making her property reasons, which while distasteful to say from an intelligent and modern perspective, if you track back through human history where the norms we now observe were not in place... Well.

Of course I don't think that this is any excuse though, because times change, society and what works within it evolves, and if individuals fail to adapt then they deserve to be left behind. In the world we live in now, a teenager is not mature enough for serious commitments, no matter how mature for their years nor how consenting they might seem to be. Adults should neither be seducing them nor participating in a teen's efforts at seduction, which certainly many will undertake.

I think that some portion of the women who are found to be sleeping with underage (but past puberty) students, likely were women with a total inability to enforce personal boundaries, who allowed themselves to somehow be convinced by the interest of a teenage male that somehow, this could work. What is perceived to be predatory might not be so much that as it is a ridiculous inability to say no in the face of persistent interest from an inappropriate source. Like, the same reason that women let themselves be roped into involvement with other kinds of terrible life choice type partners. Nevertheless, they should absolutely know better.
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Old 07-03-2019, 10:50 PM
 
1,198 posts, read 435,162 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by celticseas View Post
Interesting point.....then is it fair to say it's a bit unfair to jail men for sexual crimes if it's mostly hormones that drive them?


Come to think about it, in cases of incest, 90% of the time (pulling it out of my head but I'd say it's nearly true), it's a male parent, male sibling, or male cousin that crushes on a female. Never the other way around.
NO.
My statements pertained to each group as a whole.
Individuals, both male and female, are still responsible for their actions.

Though not the subject of this thread, neither incest nor any act between consenting adults should be a punishable civil offence.
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Old 07-03-2019, 10:53 PM
Status: "Disagreeing is not the same thing as trolling." (set 6 days ago)
 
Location: Texas
9,445 posts, read 3,628,914 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
The people I know who behave in less sexual ways are trained by very powerful social programming, to suppress, ignore, hide, or disregard their urges. .
I think some people have a naturally low sex drive and/or sex just isn't a big part of their life, for whatever reason. It doesn't come from a sense of shame. There are also a lot of people coming out these days as "asexual".

I think people on the other end of the spectrum, who have difficulty controlling their sexual urges, can sometimes run into problems socially, legally and other ways. People do need to learn to suppress some of those urges. Where I used to work, there were a consistent number of guys getting fired for looking at porn on their computer, at work. This was in the early days of the internet when it was starting to be available in all workplaces. These guys just couldn't resist those urges.
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Old 07-04-2019, 06:58 AM
 
1,415 posts, read 796,196 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PriscillaVanilla View Post
I think some people have a naturally low sex drive and/or sex just isn't a big part of their life, for whatever reason. It doesn't come from a sense of shame. There are also a lot of people coming out these days as "asexual".

I think people on the other end of the spectrum, who have difficulty controlling their sexual urges, can sometimes run into problems socially, legally and other ways. People do need to learn to suppress some of those urges. Where I used to work, there were a consistent number of guys getting fired for looking at porn on their computer, at work. This was in the early days of the internet when it was starting to be available in all workplaces. These guys just couldn't resist those urges.



Sure they could have, they just didn't.
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Old 07-04-2019, 12:09 PM
Status: "Disagreeing is not the same thing as trolling." (set 6 days ago)
 
Location: Texas
9,445 posts, read 3,628,914 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deserterer View Post
Sure they could have, they just didn't.
Well, yes. They made a choice. I don't feel sorry for them. How stupid does someone have to be, to look at porn on their computer at work.
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Old 07-05-2019, 09:12 AM
 
Location: Colorado
11,828 posts, read 7,297,740 times
Reputation: 21234
Quote:
Originally Posted by PriscillaVanilla View Post
I think some people have a naturally low sex drive and/or sex just isn't a big part of their life, for whatever reason. It doesn't come from a sense of shame. There are also a lot of people coming out these days as "asexual".

I think people on the other end of the spectrum, who have difficulty controlling their sexual urges, can sometimes run into problems socially, legally and other ways. People do need to learn to suppress some of those urges. Where I used to work, there were a consistent number of guys getting fired for looking at porn on their computer, at work. This was in the early days of the internet when it was starting to be available in all workplaces. These guys just couldn't resist those urges.
Well, right. I agree, I do know people who are asexual. That's legit.

But I do think that men have been given more social "permission" to be sexual, than women have. I think that in general, women probably have more sexuality kept under wraps or never expressed or explored, not at the individual "every woman" level but if one were to look at the bigger picture. I think that the fact that women are shamed for wanting sex, and men are not, is a factor in sexual behavior in our society.

And I also think that, from what I have read, a fairly large number of women never have "good" sex. There have been times in my life where I didn't believe I needed or wanted sex in any way. I felt I could totally live the rest of my life without it, no problem. But in hindsight the reality was that I just had a bad partner, one I had no business trying to share that with. With a better, more compatible person, I enjoy having a sex life very much.

I'm not suggesting that an asexual person just hasn't had the right partner yet. That's ridiculous and insulting besides. I'm suggesting that some women have had a more normal level of desire but have not had good experiences. Articles on the "orgasm gap" support this. And I think that in some cases, part of the problem is a lack of ability or willingness to communicate, which requires a certain ability to overcome any shame programming and be vulnerable enough to discuss what is pleasing, with a partner. That's a tough thing to do even for someone as libertine as I am.

But to the point, I mean, both in cases of predatory behavior and inappropriate behavior like what you cite with men looking at porn on work computers, I think that the fact that our culture is far more permissive and supports a system where men are entitled to sexual desire, it's likely to mean that men are more apt to break rules in this regard.
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Old 07-05-2019, 04:42 PM
 
18,347 posts, read 23,510,540 times
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i believe sex sex appeal...desire for sex.......being wanted for sex....overlies most areas in life….such as love and acceptance

most men who are really psychotic have sex issues...or women issues...

if there were brothels...sex therapists for teenage boys,,,i believe it would be a positive..

I remember being a 17 yr old boy …… in the "rut" and wanting some females...didn't have any and because of that wanting to channel ...desire to aggression ...wanting to fight other boys just to relieve the tension.....
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Old 07-05-2019, 05:47 PM
 
232 posts, read 212,954 times
Reputation: 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deserterer View Post
Citation for this "proof"?
/r/PussyPass
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Old Yesterday, 12:25 PM
 
Location: Brentwood, Tennessee
43,156 posts, read 41,773,101 times
Reputation: 82886
Quote:
Originally Posted by mainebrokerman View Post
i believe sex sex appeal...desire for sex.......being wanted for sex....overlies most areas in life….such as love and acceptance

most men who are really psychotic have sex issues...or women issues...

if there were brothels...sex therapists for teenage boys,,,i believe it would be a positive..

I remember being a 17 yr old boy …… in the "rut" and wanting some females...didn't have any and because of that wanting to channel ...desire to aggression ...wanting to fight other boys just to relieve the tension.....
I think this post does a real disservice to the millions of men who aren't rapists, who didn't turn into animals when they got horny and couldn't get laid.
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Old Yesterday, 01:43 PM
 
Location: Colorado
11,828 posts, read 7,297,740 times
Reputation: 21234
Quote:
Originally Posted by BirdieBelle View Post
I think this post does a real disservice to the millions of men who aren't rapists, who didn't turn into animals when they got horny and couldn't get laid.
He isn't saying anything about turning into a rapist necessarily, but aggressive urges evolving out of sexual tension and frustration... I mean, my ex likes to say "you've never been a boy or a man, so you would have no idea what it's like" but he has talked about just, a testosterone effect of becoming both more horny and also more aggressive. Not necessarily combining the two, but fighting is the other f-word in this equation.

I've heard similar things from trans men who started taking hormones. The increased testosterone has effects on the brain. But apparently satiating one urge can sort of feel like an outlet for the whole package of urges? I don't honestly know. As the ex says, I've never been a guy.

But I do think that as a teenager, I had more urges towards sex and towards hostility, too. Even if the sex wasn't great, I wanted it anyhow. But it generally wasn't a thing that I couldn't control. And I don't think that it is, for your typical male (including trans men on hormones) either.
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