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Old 07-01-2019, 08:51 AM
 
Location: Sydney, Australia
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I have never, if rarely, come across someone condemning suicides more than murders. If that was the case then Robin Williams would've been hated and shamed worldwide, and people like OJ Simpson would be deemed as endearing heroes. Not sure what world you live in, but come on.
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Old 07-01-2019, 11:16 AM
 
Location: Raleigh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by celticseas View Post
Not really. In general, when people talk about mass shooters, they still condemn it but almost in a general way "Stephen Paddock was crazy, mentally ill".

When it comes to suicide, many people instantly condemn the suicidal person and all the blame is laid on them.

Im trying to say that in mass shootings like the Las Vegas shootings or Isla Vista shootings, people can talk about the event without speaking ill of the shooter. "we need better gun control".
I've never heard that. What I hear in the public forum is a call to reach out to others, a plea for those that are feeling low to seek help, or see people "come out" about their own struggles in hopes it will encourage others in need of help.

Those that blame or are angered, are those closest, those that grieve and those that are closest to those grieving hardest. IE, the MIL, often a wife, sometimes a child. They feel anger because in part, its part of grieving, and other times, its a coping mechanism, or because they can't process how someone could do it.

But even the above is far from being consistent enough to say that its a common theme or trend.
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Old 07-01-2019, 02:44 PM
 
Location: Southwest Washington State
21,834 posts, read 14,341,548 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by celticseas View Post
In the media and in real life. It seems insane but commenting on YouTube videos or other online forums as well as talking to people in real life gives the impression that people are on the surface, less condemning of mass shooters than they are of suicidal people. I know the two are different but it's striking.

If you kill yourself, everyone calls you selfish, weak/cowardly and you can see this on many videos of celebrities or stories of suicie survivors on YouTube. The same statements are reiterated in real life.

On the other hand, if you go out and kill a bunch of people and commit terrorism, mass shootings, or a murder suicide, people condemn you less. Most don't condone it but some do (Elliot Rodger, Stephen Paddock, Adam Lanza). Even on this forum I'd say the difference exists.

Perhaps people can easily distance themselves from mass shootings and don't condemn the killer as much.
I think you are mistaken. Suicide affects families and friends in terrible ways and leaves questions unanswered, and terrible grief.

Mass murderers are despicable people who inflict terrible damage and grief. No one in their right mind would excuse, or soft peddle their crimes.

Instead of watching YouTube videos, interact with real people more. I think you will find that your impression is inaccurate.
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Old 07-01-2019, 02:48 PM
 
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I think maybe I meant to say that when it comes to suicide, people always speak ill of the person instantly as opposed to the murderer.

Again, all I'm saying is that it's rare to hear a murderer called "selfish" "coward" compared to a suicidal person.
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Old 07-01-2019, 02:54 PM
 
6,521 posts, read 2,355,719 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by celticseas View Post
In the media and in real life. It seems insane but commenting on YouTube videos or other online forums as well as talking to people in real life gives the impression that people are on the surface, less condemning of mass shooters than they are of suicidal people. I know the two are different but it's striking.

If you kill yourself, everyone calls you selfish, weak/cowardly and you can see this on many videos of celebrities or stories of suicie survivors on YouTube. The same statements are reiterated in real life.

On the other hand, if you go out and kill a bunch of people and commit terrorism, mass shootings, or a murder suicide, people condemn you less. Most don't condone it but some do (Elliot Rodger, Stephen Paddock, Adam Lanza). Even on this forum I'd say the difference exists.

Perhaps people can easily distance themselves from mass shootings and don't condemn the killer as much.

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with your whole premise.


Suicides TEND to have a smaller impact, and the audience (if you will) is usually smaller...thus you don't get the same reaction...but the results for those left behind is no less traumatizing.


Mass shooters tend to make the news. There's more victims, and very often, they influence policy and law and the psyche of mass audiences. IMO, for the sheer # of people who are victimized by mass shooters (which includes everyone who hears about it as well) has a more severe affect, because more people know about it. And thus...more judgement.
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Old 07-01-2019, 04:36 PM
 
Location: Myrtle Creek, Oregon
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The prejudice has its roots in religion. Suicide is a mortal sin, without hope of redemption. A suicide goes straight to hell, and can't even be buried in hallowed ground. A mass murderer, OTOH, can repent and join the company of saints in Heaven.

Personally, I see suicide as a basic human right that has never been denied by any government. It's their life, and they have the right to end it if they wish. Nobody else gets a vote.
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Old 07-01-2019, 05:00 PM
 
Location: Myrtle Creek, Oregon
12,223 posts, read 12,483,575 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Itzpapalotl View Post
They might not, but the attitude displayed toward those with mental illness impacts how those who experience suicidal ideation are treated and what help, if any, they seek and is available to them.
What evidence do you have that someone thinking of suicide has mental health issues? That seems to be more of a moral judgment than a psychological one.
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Old 07-01-2019, 05:07 PM
Status: "Disagreeing is not the same thing as trolling." (set 6 days ago)
 
Location: Texas
9,443 posts, read 3,628,914 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell View Post
What evidence do you have that someone thinking of suicide has mental health issues? That seems to be more of a moral judgment than a psychological one.
Talk to any psychiatrist. They will tell you that suicide is often a side effect of untreated mental health problems.
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Old 07-01-2019, 05:12 PM
 
922 posts, read 252,508 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nobodysbusiness View Post
I totally agree with you. I wish more people would speak up - there are so many voices "for" suicide.

"Wherever you go, there you are."

Everyone experiences pain - it's a wake-up call - to all who are in pain: So many remedies these days - first, just go to sleep and when you wake up try to find some positive cures for your woes.

Suicide DEVASTATES family members (and others) - there are ripples and consequences - karma will not let anyone "get away" with anything - cause and effect - if you cause people hurt, you will suffer (ironic, I know).
Not everyone has people who will care. And even if they do, maybe family members need to understand that they don't get to make someone live in pain and misery for decades just so they don't have to be sad for a little while.


Quote:
Originally Posted by nobodysbusiness View Post
Because they did "ask for it" - they just forgot.

Don't be such a victim.

To incarnate on Earth is a rare privilege.

It may not always be fun, but it offers expansion.
How about we all keep our personal religious beliefs to ourselves instead of trying to force them on other people.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JONOV View Post
I've never heard that. What I hear in the public forum is a call to reach out to others, a plea for those that are feeling low to seek help, or see people "come out" about their own struggles in hopes it will encourage others in need of help.
Have you read just this thread???
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Old 07-01-2019, 05:44 PM
 
Location: Myrtle Creek, Oregon
12,223 posts, read 12,483,575 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PriscillaVanilla View Post
Talk to any psychiatrist. They will tell you that suicide is often a side effect of untreated mental health problems.
For what percentage of suicides? That sounds a lot like, "He killed himself so he must have been crazy," logic.
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