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Old 07-02-2019, 08:07 AM
 
Location: Germany
173 posts, read 29,499 times
Reputation: 315

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giesela View Post
Because people are self centered and selfish. When someone commits suicide its all about them. How could they leave me? I don't want to feel like I'm to blame. Etc.

PS. Don't know why everyone is trying to pretend that people who commit suicide are called cowards etc. I've certainly seen that in all sorts of forums.
Is it any wonder that people get frustrated? there are people in this world in countries that are under war. Those people still struggle to survive.
If you feel like there's nothing better in the world to do than die sure, I accept it. But having the option to do something good for the sake of other people and choosing to die nonetheless doesn't really appeal to me.

I understand that obviously the people committing suicide feel like they are cornered and hopeless, I really do. A person should be able to do whatever they want in their life, sure.
But being so lucky as to be alive, and not live how you want is for me short-sighted to say the least. I just hope the world becomes a place where people will be able to say their thoughts out loud and ask for help when they need it.

If everyone is selfish, no one is really selfish.

Personally I believe that people aren't really selfish. The world is on the way of becoming a better place.
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Old 07-02-2019, 10:26 AM
 
Location: Raleigh
8,295 posts, read 6,147,869 times
Reputation: 11581
Quote:
Originally Posted by celticseas View Post
I think maybe I meant to say that when it comes to suicide, people always speak ill of the person instantly as opposed to the murderer.

Again, all I'm saying is that it's rare to hear a murderer called "selfish" "coward" compared to a suicidal person.
Quote:
Originally Posted by celticseas View Post
No, there aren't.

What about a homeless person. What family members will they devastate? Do you really think that everyone has someone who cares about them?

Why should people be forced to live in a world they never asked for?
I'm not engaging the "right to die" argument but oftentimes the homeless do have family members that love and care about them.

You rarely hear murders called "Selfish" or "Cowards" because they aren't the most appropriate descriptions of the crime (murder,) or at least its lower on the list...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell View Post
What evidence do you have that someone thinking of suicide has mental health issues? That seems to be more of a moral judgment than a psychological one.
It isn't a moral judgement at all. I'm not saying that everyone that commits suicide has a mental health issue. I will say that it seems to be a common enough theme among them. Sure, some have more practical reasons; I wouldn't say that someone that commits suicide in advance of a criminal trial, or to escape huge debts, dishonor, etc, might not be.
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Old 07-02-2019, 04:11 PM
 
Location: Myrtle Creek, Oregon
12,223 posts, read 12,483,575 times
Reputation: 19364
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy-Cat-Lady View Post
You don't have to be mentally ill to be chronically suicidal. This world isn't for everyone and that's becoming the case more and more. Many people are lonely, so socially isolated or have situational problems they cannot fix. The arrogance or father ignorance of people assuming 1) that conventional help will even work and 2) 2) that its even accessible for many people is very depressing in itself.
For many people, suicide is a rational choice. This is particularly true among the elderly. If life has become painful or pointless, and you don't have much time left anyway, suicide can be the best option. Derek Humphrey made book on it.
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Old 07-02-2019, 04:31 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
18,633 posts, read 23,219,501 times
Reputation: 48739
Quote:
Originally Posted by celticseas View Post
In the media and in real life. It seems insane but commenting on YouTube videos or other online forums as well as talking to people in real life gives the impression that people are on the surface, less condemning of mass shooters than they are of suicidal people. I know the two are different but it's striking.

If you kill yourself, everyone calls you selfish, weak/cowardly and you can see this on many videos of celebrities or stories of suicie survivors on YouTube. The same statements are reiterated in real life.

On the other hand, if you go out and kill a bunch of people and commit terrorism, mass shootings, or a murder suicide, people condemn you less. Most don't condone it but some do (Elliot Rodger, Stephen Paddock, Adam Lanza). Even on this forum I'd say the difference exists.

Perhaps people can easily distance themselves from mass shootings and don't condemn the killer as much.



I don't. I personally do not know of anyone who does.



People who commit suicide must be in an unimaginable amount of internal pain. They have made a choice that their life is unbearable and death would be preferable to another day of life.

Many times, but not always, they are also mentally ill.



Today, most mainstream religions do not teach that suicide is "sinful". They have taken a compassionate approach to the situation that is informed by psychology and generosity of spirit.



Homicide, on the other hand, takes the life of another person or people who did not chose to die.



When ever I hear of a murderer who kills their whole family, and later tell authorities "I felt like killing myself, life wasn't worth living" - I think "Well why didn't you just take your own life, and spare the life of others?"



All things being equal, I have much more sympathy for suicide victims.
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Old 07-02-2019, 04:33 PM
 
Location: Milwaukee
4,243 posts, read 2,083,976 times
Reputation: 2654
Quote:
Originally Posted by celticseas View Post
In the media and in real life. It seems insane but commenting on YouTube videos or other online forums as well as talking to people in real life gives the impression that people are on the surface, less condemning of mass shooters than they are of suicidal people. I know the two are different but it's striking.

If you kill yourself, everyone calls you selfish, weak/cowardly and you can see this on many videos of celebrities or stories of suicie survivors on YouTube. The same statements are reiterated in real life.

On the other hand, if you go out and kill a bunch of people and commit terrorism, mass shootings, or a murder suicide, people condemn you less. Most don't condone it but some do (Elliot Rodger, Stephen Paddock, Adam Lanza). Even on this forum I'd say the difference exists.

Perhaps people can easily distance themselves from mass shootings and don't condemn the killer as much.
Why do people condemn suicides more than homicides?

You make a statement that you regard as a matter of fact with nothing to back it up and ask why it's so? That's not how this works.
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Old 07-02-2019, 06:31 PM
 
Location: Houston
22,491 posts, read 11,581,681 times
Reputation: 9072
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gohangr View Post
Sure, but how does that imbalance come around? humans react to their environment. If you get constantly disappointed in your reality you end up with a chemical imbalance.
Actually with myself it was a viral infection that caused a chemical imbalance that led to depression. A couple weeks of cymbalta and I was fine. Never been depressed before or since.
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Old 07-03-2019, 12:22 AM
 
Location: East Midlands, UK
711 posts, read 261,518 times
Reputation: 1594
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell View Post
For many people, suicide is a rational choice. This is particularly true among the elderly. If life has become painful or pointless, and you don't have much time left anyway, suicide can be the best option. Derek Humphrey made book on it.
Yes. Especially if you've got no family and you're alone. No one will miss you. It's just pointless suffering. Even for the young who have no chance of much of a future.
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Old 07-03-2019, 12:23 AM
 
Location: East Midlands, UK
711 posts, read 261,518 times
Reputation: 1594
Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
Actually with myself it was a viral infection that caused a chemical imbalance that led to depression. A couple weeks of cymbalta and I was fine. Never been depressed before or since.
I've been depressed since my tween years. My depression and anxiety are both treatment resistant. Therapy and medication have not been effective enough. So all I can say is I'm happy for you but your situation doesn't apply to others.
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Old 07-03-2019, 12:26 AM
 
Location: East Midlands, UK
711 posts, read 261,518 times
Reputation: 1594
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
I don't. I personally do not know of anyone who does.



People who commit suicide must be in an unimaginable amount of internal pain. They have made a choice that their life is unbearable and death would be preferable to another day of life.

Many times, but not always, they are also mentally ill.



Today, most mainstream religions do not teach that suicide is "sinful". They have taken a compassionate approach to the situation that is informed by psychology and generosity of spirit.



Homicide, on the other hand, takes the life of another person or people who did not chose to die.



When ever I hear of a murderer who kills their whole family, and later tell authorities "I felt like killing myself, life wasn't worth living" - I think "Well why didn't you just take your own life, and spare the life of others?"



All things being equal, I have much more sympathy for suicide victims.
Right. And honestly, if I had uncontrollable thoughts of wanting to harm others, I would take my own life long before it got to the stage where I was at likely to act on that. Suicide is not morally wrong, murder is unless it's in an act of self defense or defense of your loved ones.
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Old 07-03-2019, 11:35 AM
 
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
5,661 posts, read 2,865,682 times
Reputation: 2880
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
I don't. I personally do not know of anyone who does.



People who commit suicide must be in an unimaginable amount of internal pain. They have made a choice that their life is unbearable and death would be preferable to another day of life.

Many times, but not always, they are also mentally ill.



Today, most mainstream religions do not teach that suicide is "sinful". They have taken a compassionate approach to the situation that is informed by psychology and generosity of spirit.



Homicide, on the other hand, takes the life of another person or people who did not chose to die.



When ever I hear of a murderer who kills their whole family, and later tell authorities "I felt like killing myself, life wasn't worth living" - I think "Well why didn't you just take your own life, and spare the life of others?"



All things being equal, I have much more sympathy for suicide victims.
We generally have a powerful sense of self preservation and a fear of dying. To decide to end one's own life, the pain one experiences must truly be tremendous to overcome the fear of dying.

I do not understand those who think suicide is cowardly or selfish. A suicidal person very likely is unable to see how their death might impact friends and family due to their state of mind at the time of crises.
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