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Old 07-06-2019, 02:16 PM
 
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In Belgium it's legal to request and receive physician-assisted suicide for mental illness. After all, there are some people who suffer from chronic depression that is intractable and untreatable. It's not the normal type of gloom that's temporary but a chronic depression that lingers 24/7. And psychiatric meds don't help either.

More could be said. But from what I've said so far--do any of you favor physician-assisted suicide for the mentally ill who request it?
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Old 07-06-2019, 02:26 PM
 
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Sure, why not? As long as there are zero legal ramifications down the line.
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Old 07-06-2019, 02:44 PM
 
Location: on the wind
7,072 posts, read 2,899,892 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monastic555 View Post
In Belgium it's legal to request and receive physician-assisted suicide for mental illness. After all, there are some people who suffer from chronic depression that is intractable and untreatable. It's not the normal type of gloom that's temporary but a chronic depression that lingers 24/7. And psychiatric meds don't help either.

More could be said. But from what I've said so far--do any of you favor physician-assisted suicide for the mentally ill who request it?
I can see both sides to the question and see the potential pitfalls, but I do believe that an individual should have the right to choose their own fate if they can articulate it consistently. I believe that someone who has gotten to this point is not making that decision lightly...has thought it through for a long time. If there was a formatted procedure in place I doubt the ones choosing it are acting on impulse (the ones you'd want to prevent doing so). The only other person(s) who should be able to prevent this are a) a professional who can show that the patient is incapable of rational decisionmaking, b) a designated guardian/caregiver for a vulnerable person, or c) a parent of a minor child. I do not feel anyone else who doesn't happen to agree because of religious, ethical, or philosophical beliefs should dictate what a patient can or cannot do. I do not believe a government or court should weigh in on it either. It is between the patient, their doctor, and maybe affected family.

Of course it seems reasonable to want the person to be of "sound mind", but it's not that easy to determine if they are mentally ill. If someone is in such mental pain they don't want to live, how do you determine if they are truly capable of understanding their choices? Even if some other avenues still exist for them should they be required to exhaust them before opting out? When is enough enough? Could someone be coerced or their wishes overridden to save others trouble or expense? There's the rub.

Last edited by Parnassia; 07-06-2019 at 03:16 PM..
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Old 07-06-2019, 02:45 PM
 
1,410 posts, read 794,770 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monastic555 View Post
In Belgium it's legal to request and receive physician-assisted suicide for mental illness. After all, there are some people who suffer from chronic depression that is intractable and untreatable. It's not the normal type of gloom that's temporary but a chronic depression that lingers 24/7. And psychiatric meds don't help either.

More could be said. But from what I've said so far--do any of you favor physician-assisted suicide for the mentally ill who request it?

No I don't favor it, because there is no way to verify that a depression (for example) is "untreatable" and will never improve.



Of course psychiatric medications may not help, that goes without saying. They don't help in A LOT of cases of people who go on to improve anyway. Their helpfulness is highly overstated. Stopping them could be the first big step for that "untreatable" person to start finding better ways to combat their depression. But not many psychiatrists are going to suggest it, and that makes them potentially the worst enemy of these "untreatables".



So its a really bad idea. You never want to transfer ownership of your mental state to someone else. There is nothing in a psychiatrists training or expertise that allows them say "you will never improve" with scientifically verifiable certainty
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Old Yesterday, 11:52 AM
 
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Another factor to be taken into account is if individuals attempt suicide on their own, then sometimes those attempts can backfire. Without describing the methods here, sometimes those backfires will result in a much more anguishing situation such as brain injury causing total paralysis of the body. So a physician's assistance is needed in the euthanasia.
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Old Yesterday, 12:06 PM
 
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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Originally Posted by Deserterer View Post
No I don't favor it, because there is no way to verify that a depression (for example) is "untreatable" and will never improve.



Of course psychiatric medications may not help, that goes without saying. They don't help in A LOT of cases of people who go on to improve anyway. Their helpfulness is highly overstated. Stopping them could be the first big step for that "untreatable" person to start finding better ways to combat their depression. But not many psychiatrists are going to suggest it, and that makes them potentially the worst enemy of these "untreatables".



So its a really bad idea. You never want to transfer ownership of your mental state to someone else. There is nothing in a psychiatrists training or expertise that allows them say "you will never improve" with scientifically verifiable certainty
One should take into consideration the pain - actual pain - that the person is living through. To force someone to continue in that pain because there 'might' be a cure sometime down the line. So far the track record indicates there is no hope. What are they to do?
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Old Yesterday, 12:32 PM
 
Location: East Midlands, UK
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I wish we had that here in the UK. I'd have signed up for it long ago and would be gladly put to sleep. It prevents people from having to resort to methods that pose risk of trauma to others such as jumping in front of trains or by gunshot.
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Old Yesterday, 12:53 PM
 
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Mental illness by definition implies that a person is not in their sound mind and requires someone else to provide for their best interests. I wonder how they rationalize this contradiction.

It sounds dreadfully close to euthanasia to me. Consider the case of a severely disabled personal who couldn't communicate and appeared to be in constant physical pain. Is making a medical decision to end his life the correct decision?
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Old Yesterday, 02:34 PM
 
Location: on the wind
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lodestar View Post
Mental illness by definition implies that a person is not in their sound mind and requires someone else to provide for their best interests. I wonder how they rationalize this contradiction.

It sounds dreadfully close to euthanasia to me. Consider the case of a severely disabled personal who couldn't communicate and appeared to be in constant physical pain. Is making a medical decision to end his life the correct decision?
At some point the decisionmaker would have to make peace with the conclusion that no one, whether articulate or not, would choose living in that sort of physical/mental/emotional pain. Do people really assume there are patients who WANT to persist this way? Really? Even animals that don't go through the self-imposed intellectual misery humans do give up and die when their situations become dire. Why would they assume that the "life at all costs" refrain should trump everything else? IMHO there are already too many voices in our heads during sad situations like this. The number needs to be reduced. Not all of those voices are equally valid; they speak for some other agenda, some personal crusade driven by their own emotional turmoil, not for the patient.

Last edited by Parnassia; Yesterday at 03:03 PM..
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Old Yesterday, 03:12 PM
 
Location: colorado springs, CO
4,922 posts, read 2,272,349 times
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Originally Posted by Monastic555 View Post
More could be said. But from what I've said so far--do any of you favor physician-assisted suicide for the mentally ill who request it?
Absolutely not. Belgium may as well just hand over their ‘will to live’ card. Why stop there? Put the whole territory up for auction. Nah, that takes planning. More like ‘Curb & Carry’.

Maybe if citizens get depressed enough, militant extremists can save their arms to use on us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy-Cat-Lady View Post
I wish we had that here in the UK. I'd have signed up for it long ago and would be gladly put to sleep. It prevents people from having to resort to methods that pose risk of trauma to others such as jumping in front of trains or by gunshot.
You are kind of an example of exactly why this should never happen. You are ASD, correct? Me too. I understand how a lifetime spent always on the outside looking in, can impact a person. Constantly misunderstanding & being misunderstood. Anxiety to the point of fatigue.

But some of us, like my son, are willing to fight for their place in society. He’s spent the majority of his life being unable to say ‘I’m hurting. Thirsty. Hot. Tired ...” but he has a sense of purpose. He is proud of his YouTube & Deviant Art accounts & of his little group of followers. He loves swimming & drawing & the child who couldn’t talk, can write silly scripts for his planned animated show: “Luke’s Adventures’. He draws himself, (the starring role, of course) as a teenage kid wearing shorts & a t-shirt, with crazy brown hair & a smile on his face.

He has struggles. He’s a teenager. He gets depressed. When I die, he will require 24/hr a day care that will require taxpayer dollars. If I am not here; who will save him from being ‘assisted’, if we were to have this option? Or the other millions of disabled? What is the potential for this to be abused?
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