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Old 07-13-2019, 12:32 AM
 
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
10,531 posts, read 8,781,496 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loose cannon View Post
Alcoholism is not a disease. It is an inherited mental illness.
Does it matter what causes alcoholism? You don't have to know why you are abusing alcohol to stop. You have to want to stop and go to any length to stay stopped. Only it's not that easy to do it on your own. Many of us needed to go into bootcamp.
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Old 07-13-2019, 01:06 AM
 
Location: California
586 posts, read 231,742 times
Reputation: 473
Originally Posted by oh-eve
I do not think that alcohol or other drug addiction is a disease.
You may have the addiction gene where you are more likely to become an addict than someone who doesn't have it.
But in the end, you CHOOSE if you put your needle in the arm or smoke that joint. No natural force or contagiousness makes you addicted against your will.

You have a weak character or low self discipline or self esteem and choose to take drugs. Maybe you are just curious or very young. It feels awesome but then your common sense should tell you that it is too dangerous to keep doing it because "addiction" is no sudden surprise, everyone knows you become addicted if you keep doing it. A weak person aka the one with the addiction gene will want the warm feeling no matter what the consequences are and a person who is strong will not.

This opinion is not backed up by any science, just my personal experience with friends and drug experimenting.

I agree.

I received an autopsy report of my friend who recently collapsed and died at age 53. The toxicology report measured his BAC at .357 I think that is around 60 times over the legal limit. What happened with him was he started drinking in the morning 2 years ago, thus he was always drunk.
He embalmed himself with alcohol.

He once told me he just liked to live life in the fast lane.
Some people are not afraid of living on the edge or rushing to their funeral.
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Old 07-13-2019, 01:51 AM
 
Location: Knoxville, TN
1,030 posts, read 569,187 times
Reputation: 1533
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostsoul359 View Post

I received an autopsy report of my friend who recently collapsed and died at age 53. The toxicology report measured his BAC at .357 I think that is around 60 times over the legal limit. What happened with him was he started drinking in the morning 2 years ago, thus he was always drunk.
He embalmed himself with alcohol.

He once told me he just liked to live life in the fast lane.
Some people are not afraid of living on the edge or rushing to their funeral.

I think alcoholism can be a mental illness, or a choice which turns into a terrible habit.

Some people drink to self medicate due to mental illness and then some start drinking and end up hooked. The body will physically depend on alcohol after enough of it.

I'm an alcoholic and I've had a (nationally renown) psychiatrist explain to me, in detail, with a notepad and pen, the what how and why. It sucks but is just the cards I was dealt. The good news is that it's under control 95% of the time.

Sorry about your friend. About 15 years ago my then alive Grandfather told me about a coworker friend of his similar to your friend who always drank after work who dropped dead at age 53 as well. My Grandfather said he went out with him one time and was sick for days after keeping up with him at just one outing. At that time I was drinking a bottle a day and started to realize it wasn't all partying anymore.

I'm 37 years old now and in good health, thankfully, after many benders.
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Old 07-13-2019, 03:10 AM
 
Location: California
586 posts, read 231,742 times
Reputation: 473
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister 7 View Post
I think alcoholism can be a mental illness, or a choice which turns into a terrible habit.

Some people drink to self medicate due to mental illness and then some start drinking and end up hooked. The body will physically depend on alcohol after enough of it.

I'm an alcoholic and I've had a (nationally renown) psychiatrist explain to me, in detail, with a notepad and pen, the what how and why. It sucks but is just the cards I was dealt. The good news is that it's under control 95% of the time.

Sorry about your friend. About 15 years ago my then alive Grandfather told me about a coworker friend of his similar to your friend who always drank after work who dropped dead at age 53 as well. My Grandfather said he went out with him one time and was sick for days after keeping up with him at just one outing. At that time I was drinking a bottle a day and started to realize it wasn't all partying anymore.

I'm 37 years old now and in good health, thankfully, after many benders.
Just remember after we all die we remain in spirit.
We can choose to stay in sprit or reincarnate and get drunk or high again on Earth once again.


PM me for the source of this info if you care to know where I discovered this information

Last edited by lostsoul359; 07-13-2019 at 03:20 AM..
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Old 07-13-2019, 06:24 AM
 
Location: Milwaukee
4,358 posts, read 2,111,059 times
Reputation: 2719
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airborneguy View Post
AA cult members 100% believe that everyone who has ever had a sip of alcohol is an alcoholic.
This statement is 100% false. You sound defensive. Some people involved in AA are intolerant. Just like real life. Some people are intolerant. Period.

As you said yourself, "I was force-fed the worst of AA's principles by people with interests in not holding true to AA's better principles."


Quote:
Originally Posted by Airborneguy View Post
While consensus certainly exists that alcoholism is a disease, AA is much more akin to a religion/cult than a scientific cure for that disease.
So?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Airborneguy View Post
I understand that the way it was illegally forced upon me obviously soured my view, but I also have spearheaded an intervention on my best friend who subsequently has used AA to save his life. I understand that it has merit for those who need it, but they need to really focus on those who need it and not play games with people who don’t.
AA doesn't "play games" with people who don't need it.

The only requirement for membership in AA is a sincere desire to quit drinking.

Last edited by AguaDulce; 07-13-2019 at 06:33 AM..
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Old 07-13-2019, 08:43 AM
 
Location: Greenbelt, MD
8,971 posts, read 6,509,659 times
Reputation: 44382
Quote:
Originally Posted by AguaDulce View Post
This statement is 100% false. You sound defensive. Some people involved in AA are intolerant. Just like real life. Some people are intolerant. Period.

As you said yourself, "I was force-fed the worst of AA's principles by people with interests in not holding true to AA's better principles."


So?

AA doesn't "play games" with people who don't need it.

The only requirement for membership in AA is a sincere desire to quit drinking.
You forgot adherence to a fictional god, I'll assume the Christian god. My understanding is that is their focal point. Without that belief I do not think you are welcome.

Their 12 Step program is littered with that nonsense...
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Old 07-13-2019, 09:03 AM
 
Location: Milwaukee
4,358 posts, read 2,111,059 times
Reputation: 2719
Quote:
Originally Posted by John13 View Post
You forgot adherence to a fictional god, I'll assume the Christian god. My understanding is that is their focal point. Without that belief I do not think you are welcome.

Their 12 Step program is littered with that nonsense.
It's not a rule. Anyone who has a sincere desire to quit drinking is welcome. You don't even have to quit drinking. You only have to have a sincere desire to quit drinking.


Incidentally, there is a growing secular AA movement.
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/22/u...-religion.html


When the book Alcoholics Anonymous was first written, it was an Atheist by the name of Jim B. who suggested the phrase "God as we understood Him" be written into the Twelve Steps . . . AA co-founder Bill W. praised this contribution and credited atheists with "widening the gateway to recovery for all regardless of their beliefs or lack of belief."
https://secularaa.org/secularaainfo/
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Old 07-13-2019, 10:10 AM
 
Location: Staten Island, NY
8,757 posts, read 7,126,263 times
Reputation: 8247
Quote:
Originally Posted by AguaDulce View Post
This statement is 100% false. You sound defensive. Some people involved in AA are intolerant. Just like real lifeSo?
Answering, “So?” implies that you accept my statement but disagree with it being a problem.

AA as a cult/religion is a problem because medical doctors accept AA as a valid treatment for a scientifically proven disease. What other diseases exist where medical doctors prescribe membership in a cult/religion as the “only” cure?
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Old 07-13-2019, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Milwaukee
4,358 posts, read 2,111,059 times
Reputation: 2719
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airborneguy View Post
Answering, “So?” implies that you accept my statement but disagree with it being a problem.

AA as a cult/religion is a problem because medical doctors accept AA as a valid treatment for a scientifically proven disease. What other diseases exist where medical doctors prescribe membership in a cult/religion as the “only” cure?
Doctors and medical researchers have debunked central tenets of AA doctrine and found dozens of other treatments more effective. There are various pills and other therapies available.

There are options. Many of them are cost prohibitive.

Call it whatever you want, but AA works for many, and it's free.

.

Last edited by AguaDulce; 07-13-2019 at 10:26 AM..
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Old 07-13-2019, 10:53 AM
 
Location: colorado springs, CO
4,990 posts, read 2,302,078 times
Reputation: 16721
Quote:
Originally Posted by John13 View Post
You forgot adherence to a fictional god, I'll assume the Christian god. My understanding is that is their focal point. Without that belief I do not think you are welcome.

Their 12 Step program is littered with that nonsense...
If believing in a power that is higher than you works; why knock it?

If not believing in a power higher than you got you there; why not abandon that?

Why is doing what works, something that has clearly worked for so many people; adversarial to you? You do you; let them handle themselves. I remember AA from the 1980s when I was court-ordered to attend as a teenager. They don’t tell you that you must believe in the Father, the Son & the Holy Spirit.

If surrendering to the sun, the moon & the stars appeals to you, then do so. Allah. Lucifer, you name it, if it works; it works. Living, happy & sober people is the ends & the means could surely be a lot worse.
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