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Old 08-10-2019, 10:39 AM
 
8,322 posts, read 6,094,099 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by animalcrazy View Post
Phony people tend to be shallow. They're not nice, insecure maybe? I've had a couple of rectums in my life, but they didn't last long. I tend to gravitate towards decent, honest, nice people. They really are out there.
Hey, if we didn't have 'rectums' we'd all be full of crap (and not just the rectums).
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Old 08-10-2019, 07:35 PM
 
26,252 posts, read 28,697,948 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james112 View Post
I hate to say it but the epidemic of all these too nice guys was caused by them being raised by women most of their childhood. Dad was mostly at work and they were raised by mom at home and women teachers at school.

Under the guidance of the women in their childhood boys received praise and love for nice behavior. The women were essentially subconsciously 'training' boys to attach to the woman emotionally and behave much like girls, but also to suppress aggression and do not act like little men around women, instead always please women. Then you are rewarded with praise.

As they become young men they go out into the world being too nice, trying to gain acceptance by pleasing everyone. That's what they were taught.

Women do not really know how to raise a boy to a masculine man. It's just not in their DNA. A masculine man is not a people pleaser. He can be kind but is not seeking approval. Acting in a way that seeks approval is what will be deemed acting too nice to others.

When a man has grown up to be too nice he really does need to reverse his approval seeking behavior around others (except as an employee and even then only as required for the job) and learn and develop masculine traits.
I think there's a lot of truth to this.
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Old 08-10-2019, 10:33 PM
 
164 posts, read 28,706 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james112 View Post
I hate to say it but the epidemic of all these too nice guys was caused by them being raised by women most of their childhood. Dad was mostly at work and they were raised by mom at home and women teachers at school.

Under the guidance of the women in their childhood boys received praise and love for nice behavior. The women were essentially subconsciously 'training' boys to attach to the woman emotionally and behave much like girls, but also to suppress aggression and do not act like little men around women, instead always please women. Then you are rewarded with praise.

As they become young men they go out into the world being too nice, trying to gain acceptance by pleasing everyone. That's what they were taught.

Women do not really know how to raise a boy to a masculine man. It's just not in their DNA. A masculine man is not a people pleaser. He can be kind but is not seeking approval. Acting in a way that seeks approval is what will be deemed acting too nice to others.

When a man has grown up to be too nice he really does need to reverse his approval seeking behavior around others (except as an employee and even then only as required for the job) and learn and develop masculine traits.
Thank you for the laugh. I needed it this evening.
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Old Yesterday, 05:28 AM
 
13 posts, read 291 times
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The short answer is because it A: Leads to lies and secrets because you're more concerned about sparing feelings then harsh, none nice honesty (not intended but most people do this). Or/and B: You end up neglecting yourself or otherwise make yourself a hypocrite when you care about "most people" and lose sight of "People close to you" (also not intended. Again, most people do this). There's also C: Good intentions. Which is the root of many wars and much violence. Along with making people depressed or/and suicidal because you take over their control. All because of "nice good intentions".

In my experience and observations, as someone that has talked sense into people many times and need a good talking too myself, it is ALWAYS better to be HONEST then NICE. The former can't be questioned. It is logic. It can be cruel but it is unbiased and leads to good time. If you're "Just being nice" then you're A: Assuming what's nice for me (Can a hug hurt. What if something painful heals. etc) and you're not doing it for ME. You're doing it because you think you know better or to stroke your own ego. Which is selfish.

Being selfish isn't a bad thing. You can be as selfless as you are selfish. But If you're just in it because "It's the right thing to do" then "Doing the normal nice thing" would be insulting to someone like me. And therefor the reverse of what you consider nice.

Fortunately communication deals with misinterpretations. That aside, if you have to state something in a "mean" way which just as importantly gets you to be human and express negative feelings in a healthy (or even unhealthy) way then that's even better. You can't bottle that up. You will explode eventually if you try. You are going to be mean to me just as I am to you because when people care about each other you deal with the bad times as well as the good.

I've had to talk people into being honest with me instead of nice before. It works. People might not like or enjoy it at first, but honesty takes priority. Then people learn to enjoy even the insults. To me a witty insulting phrase is a nice thing. Because it shows some degree of effort and thought behind it. In comparison it is more preferable then simply being called a one word insult. Which shows only the bare minimum of brain power. Meaning I'm not even worth a sentence. Taking the former as a compliment and turning it around can lead to good times and even getting laid. Can't do anything with one word.

To put it another way, would you rather be LIED too in your face with a fake smile or receive an HONEST insult? Which is "nicer"? Considering that lies and secrets is more likely to lead to depression and suicide (regardless of the topic) I'll take an honest insult any day. At least then you know where you stand and was informed. Lesser of two evils. Can go bad. But can make it good. Especially if you take it as a compliment to remove the power of the insult itself (it makes people either confused or amused more often then not. Which in turn lightens the mood). If I only got a lie to work with then I don't know how to turn it around into something better.

There's also the fact that people tend to be judgemental morons claiming the moral high ground acting like their way is "better" then yours. You get the idea. If you don't respect other peoples methods and assume only the worst of them at every turn then is that really being nice? Like hell it is. It's for reasons like this that I enjoy rubbing the fact that people are hypocrites in their faces. Not to make them feel worse but in order to get them to realise they're making themselves think so little of themselves. I point it out and they avoid the same mistake less. I expect no less from others, provided we informed each other. Mistakes are one thing. Tough love is another. Being nice and doing nothing lets someone remain in a depressed state. Being "nice". Tough love where you tell someone what they are while being understanding can get someone out of that rut. Which likely requires saying something that hurts them. Chances are they'll hate you for it at first. Thing is they also end up loving you for it in the end.

Last edited by Taramafor; Yesterday at 05:38 AM..
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Old Yesterday, 08:23 AM
 
Location: San Francisco
2,378 posts, read 553,808 times
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One can be ‘nice’ to people in the world i.e. friendly and outgoing; it has absolutely nothing to do with being honest (or dishonest) within the context of relationships (as some posts would suggest). It appears many are arriving at new definitions for the word i.e. ‘superficial’, lacking awareness, naive, etc. Now it apparently means to be dishonest as well.

One can be nice while being honest - by simply being tactful (and not bulldozing people).
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Old Yesterday, 10:09 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorporateCowboy View Post
One can be nice while being honest - by simply being tactful (and not bulldozing people).
That isn't always an option. If you want to pretend you can always make it sunshine and rainbows then you're setting yourself up for a situation you're not prepared for.

People WILL get mad at you at some point. It will probably be rare but due to the time you spend around each other the odds of falling out at some point are much higher. Especially in the "early days" where you still get to know each other better. That's pretty much every relationship ever. Miscommunication happens and it has to be dealt with. or worse, making sure someone remains emotionally stable because they have a low opinion of themselves (and sometimes there's no tactful way with some people and bulldozing is all that's left).

If you CAN do something tactfully then do so. But if bulldozing is the only option left then it's the ONLY option left. And treading on eggshells can do more harm then good. Don't get so caught up in being "nice" that you lose sight of making sure someone is "aware". The danger is in not speaking up due to not wanting to bulldoze. Silence often causes the harm. And that silence often happens because of not wanting to be mean. That has everything to do with being honest. And it's sure as hell not superficial. Nor is it lacking in awareness (if anything the reverse. You assume a lot CoporateCowboy).

I don't like bulldozing either. But when people are stubbon (me included) and tactful doesn't work it's either bulldoze or silence. Since silence can cause the greater harm this means bulldozing is the "nicer" approch when tactful doesn't work.
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Old Yesterday, 10:34 AM
 
Location: San Francisco
2,378 posts, read 553,808 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taramafor View Post
That isn't always an option. If you want to pretend you can always make it sunshine and rainbows then you're setting yourself up for a situation you're not prepared for.

People WILL get mad at you at some point. It will probably be rare but due to the time you spend around each other the odds of falling out at some point are much higher.
People getting mad is not the point - everyone gets mad sometimes (even nice people - lol). If someone approaches the world from a nice and friendly perspective, it’s nothing to get angry about - nor does it mean the person can’t also be honest and self-aware in their relationships. One doesn’t automatically negate the other.
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Old Yesterday, 10:41 AM
 
Location: Texas
9,976 posts, read 3,824,412 times
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Some don't see a people pleaser as a masculine trait. Women in general, tend to be more attracted to men who have backbone, can say "no" and stand up for themselves. If a grown man (or even grown woman) is a people pleaser, then they need to work on that. It's okay to tell people no. It's okay to sometimes put yourself first in certain situations. It's also okay to be blunt sometimes even if it hurts someone else's feelings.
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Old Yesterday, 10:50 AM
 
Location: San Francisco
2,378 posts, read 553,808 times
Reputation: 1260
Quote:
Originally Posted by PriscillaVanilla View Post
Some don't see a people pleaser as a masculine trait. Women in general, tend to be more attracted to men who have backbone, can say "no" and stand up for themselves. If a grown man (or even grown woman) is a people pleaser, then they need to work on that. It's okay to tell people no. It's okay to sometimes put yourself first in certain situations. It's also okay to be blunt sometimes even if it hurts someone else's feelings.
Having a friendly or outgoing disposition has nothing to do with people-pleasing personalities, naïveté intelligence, self-awareness, honesty, femininity or masculinity nor does it have anything to do with the ability to put one’s self first. The list continues to grow as to what ‘nice’ means and has derailed to such an extent it renders any reasonable discussion an impossibility.
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Old Yesterday, 11:08 AM
 
13 posts, read 291 times
Reputation: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by CorporateCowboy View Post
Having a friendly or outgoing disposition has nothing to do with people-pleasing personalities, naïveté intelligence, self-awareness, honesty, femininity or masculinity nor does it have anything to do with the ability to put one’s self first. The list continues to grow as to what ‘nice’ means and has derailed to such an extent it renders any reasonable discussion an impossibility.
Translation: You're tossing your "nice" in other peoples faces and don't want to consider what being "nice" means when it can also be "mean". Nor have you considered how being mean can also translate to being nice.

The whole point is that it's subjective and dependent on context. It's not impossible to deal with. You're just saying that because you don't want to (or otherwise don't see a way too) deal with it.

Either you're ignorant or you're not willing to deal with it. the former would be a case of a lack of knowledge. The later is, frankly, mean (and therefor the reverse of nice. Which contradicts your earlier statement). So which is it?

Regardless you implied assumptions about me. As well as implying I'm naive. That in itself is an insult. That is mean. Period. And also hypocritical to be frank. Unintended I'm sure but that just raised more concerns, not less.

My gripe with "nice" people is that they SAY they're nice when they're actually being mean. Some people will do this with intent. Other people will do it without meaning too. My concern is in the unintended harm. That tends to do the most damage.

Also, question. You're going on about this stuff in relationships. Have you talked about this stuff in a relationship? It's honestly a good talk to have. "What's nice/mean to each other".
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