Do I have some kind of deeper low grade misogyny getting in the way of dating? (discrimination, misogynistic)

[Tex?Il?]

I would like your input on whether I have some deeper buried, low grade, misogyny in my inner psyche that is impacting my success in dating.

A little background as its been awhile since posting on CD-Forum.

I'm a 40 year old guy, who has a fairly normal healthy amount of friends (I have a pretty normal social life hanging out with friends, Facebook posts sometimes get upwards of 50 likes from my over 400 FB friends, several of my closest friends are women, typically older (basically Gen-Exers/4-23 years older than me), and have been in four long-term relationships in my life ranging from a few months to a year and a half, all who I have continued to be friends with afterwards, or at least on healthy talking, keeping in touch terms. Those who know me, know me to very respectful and supportive of women's success.

But while I have many close female friends, and many more that have clearly have respect for me, and have been in a few relationships that went well, and just split for whatever normal reasons they don't last, there also have been many women that have been put off by me for sure over my lifetime, and I wonder if the things that motivate me to date a particular person, or to answer questions with someone I am dating, if there might be deeper issues.

Warning here: I am talking about politics here, but there's a point, because as we've seen the personal has becoming political (or it might be vice-versa)


First off - let me give you recent examples. During the past four years, [Mod cut: political] - several people unfriended me on FB, though I have had a net gain of FB friends (not that it really matters, but could be an indicator) the ones that have unfriended me or unfollowed me have been disproportionately women. I am not really a [Mod cut.]supporter at all. I always thought [Mod cut.].

I tend to be more economically left/liberal, and more socially/culturally conservative. I love history and "good" heritage" (classical music/theater, historic architecture/sites), and nostalgia is my weakness. More importantly I support social programs, government interventions in economic stability to protect jobs, protect the environment and land acquisitions for conservation, etc.

(Essentially I'm actually attracted to and find appealing something European about having age-old cuisine, traditions, architecture and other cultural aspects, and don't mind high taxes to pay for social programs, environmental protection. I just like classic and timeless things)!


Now, however and here's where I there has been a lot of friction, I [Mod cut.]


The point of bringing this up, is that it has clearly been off-putting to women I know when I tended to minimize the horribleness of [Mod cut.]. More women unfriended or unfollowed me for things like pointing out that [Mod cut.] as some kind of false equivalency. In today's day its not enough to not vote for or express support for someone or something, you must be as equally outraged as they are or they are suspicious of you.


Anyways, here are some other issues that I wonder if deep down there is some latent misogyny that might be impacting my interactions with women, or if its not really anything to worry about.

1. Basically I tend to find being overemotional in general, and even reacting either positively or negatively to situations in the here are now - as just kind of childish. I never stereotype women as this, however, women do tend to disproportionately have these qualities more than men. I tend to approach whatever situation with a certain kind of stoicism, and I tell myself that this isn't unprecedented, this might just blow over, and if it doesn't then we'll certainly just adjust in whatever way we need to." One example, when it comes to things like the outdoors and the environment. Here in California, I don't get emotional over say the wildfires. I understand they require a real understanding of actual ecological sciences. I understand that they are issues that need to be addressed, that we need to practice better land management techniques, (as well as bringing down carbon emissions - separate issue), but I also understand there is a process of recovery/succession, and that wildlife sure is impacted, but if we go out and disturb the land and plant trees immediately, and leave out food and water for wildlife we can EASILY do more harm than good. A few women in my social circles felt this was "mansplaining" Is there anything wrong here?


2. When it comes to the issue of commitment in dating, my last girlfriend seemed to have lost interest because my reasons stated for long-term relationship commitment (and ultimately marriage) might have been off-putting possibly, but they were also more genuine coming from a guy, albeit less romantic. I said things like and I'm paraphrasing myself: "Yes, monogamy I think is important for the stability of the social fabric of our society, its a moral duty to commit to one woman, and besides I really don't like the process of meeting new women to date, as it can be emotionally/mentally exhausting to get beyond women's defense mechanisms and to build trust. So it would be nice if I could say good-bye to having to do any more of that. Besides you know how much I like you!" What would you think of a man who expresses commitment in these words. Would you find it off-putting?


3. Overall, I do find that I can have a sensitive male ego. I find it very central to my identity as a man to have answers to for as much as possible. To explain things to people. Its why I am in higher education! I feel like being knowledgeable and being able to solve problems and plan things as something that I strongly associate with my male identity. I am NOT saying that women can not be these things! I have so much respect for women who have advanced in careers, especially ones that are male-dominated, and will absolutely defer to any woman who knows what they're talking about!! But when it comes to being in a relationship, I will feel my self-esteem crushed if a girlfriend feels the need to constantly comment and criticize on the way I do things, my decisions. This is something that feels very emasculating. Again, I feel like I kind of half to be at least as smart and capable as my partner. My longest relationship was with a type-A, perfectionist, who even admitted that she knows she can be a control freak. It made me questions EVERYTHING about my identity. Is this bad. Is there deeper sexism here?


4. Lastly, on top of all this, despite having a rather male brain, when it actually comes to my fashion, grooming, and appearance, I actually feel more attractive and confident being leaning less masculine than the typical guy chooses to be. No, I'm not talking about anything remotely transgender here.

I'm just talking about: I am conscious about my weight, and prefer to be thin, I really don't like facial hair (except when camping/in the country) or even really much body hair on me, I like more form-fitting clothes, sometimes wear purple, even occasionally pink, and have even experimented with things that might even be a little too feminine for some women like getting my hair highlighted or wearing an earring. But those last ones - not sure if I can pull them off. So, this is the one thing that is the opposite of the rest of the list, that might be off-putting but for the opposite reason.


I appreciate any thoughts. Do I have some low-grade, latent misogyny? Or am I worried about nothing and I should accept myself the way I am and be confident?

[Huckleberry3911948]

Women don’t like men that talk a lot about themselves

[bobspez]

There's none so blind as those who will not see. I'm a guy, I'm 74, and a baby boomer. I'm a lifelong [Mod cut.]. Almost all my friends are [Mod cut.] supporters but we stay away from discussing politics. The fact that we are friends doesn't mean I in any way approve their opinions on politics or don't think they are whacky in their political choices. But they are my friends.

When you say "I can't truly bring myself to REALLY believe that women's rights, I really deep down think that when it comes to race, gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation/gender identity that the prejudice and discrimination And that any instances of racism and sexism are most likely isolated and not likely part of a long-term trend, and that these issues will just get better over time for people if we don't mess with the natural healing process, and those bad ideas just die with attrition.", what I am hearing is you don't believe these are problems at all, and that you don't recognize that these prejudices have been the norm for hundreds of years and the prejudices are in fact widely held today. When you say prejudice doesn't exist, you are giving tacit approval to it. After all, if it doesn't exist, nothing needs to be done about it, which is pretty much what you said, that if it's ignored it will die out eventually on it's own. The fact that you are bothered by critical race theory pretty much echoes that. You have all the trappings of a [[Mod cut.], no matter what you think.

I don't see why you just don't date [Mod cut.] supporters instead of trying present the other side of the coin to obviously [Mod cut.] women. Politics today is a fence you can't straddle without offending both sides.


Mod cut.

[ellie]

Are you misogynistic? Mmmm, maybe. You tend to lump men and women into stereotypes and seem fixated on your own maleness. You also seem to focus a lot on women’s so-called negative traits like emotionality and complain that some don’t appreciate “mansplaining” while at the same time it hurts your male ego to be criticized by a woman. Then you say you like wearing purple and pink, form fitting clothes, and lightening your hair, as if it’s highly eccentric for a man to do that.

You sound a trifle narcissistic or at least self absorbed. You’re cocky when you should be humble. You’re definitely prejudiced. You’re probably your own worst enemy.

[littletraveller]

TL;DR bro.

Who cares how many likes your Facebook posts get? Social media is not real life.

[Norrov]

I find it best to just not follow or care about politics. I’m conservative and just agree with whatever my friends say and change the subject. I honestly couldn’t care less who the president is. I’ll adapt and succeed either way. It’s personal opinions, keep it that way.

Just keep things lighthearted, IME women don’t care for guys that wear their heart on their sleeve.

That hipster fashion things works for some guys, my buddy dresses very feminine despite being super conservative. Last time I seen him he had peach hair and was rocking some strange outfit with a scarf. He’s successful with women and lives in LA.

[Ruth4Truth]

Purple is cool on guys!

Mod cut.

Do you have a deep-seated misogyny? I don't know. It's hard to say from one post. I think I made an effort to explain an issue you raised on your other thread, back then, and you said you'd think about it, and consider the historical antecedents I pointed out as part of the underlying cause. Please review that thread. It was good info.

I applaud you for asking this question here, and leaving yourself open to what on C-D can be a brutal onslaught of commentary. Whether you'll learn anything from what anyone has to say, remains to be seen.

Happy New Year! May Personal Growth be yours in the new year!

[Damnitjanet]

Originally Posted by Tex?Il?

Do I have some low-grade, latent misogyny? Or am I worried about nothing and I should accept myself the way I am and be confident?

I lean more toward accepting yourself and being confident but work on being more a lot more tactful.

Fundamentally I don't think we can change that much about ourselves. I seriously doubt you are going to shift from being a Trump voter to a Bernie Bro, I just don't think that is how people work in the real world. So be true to yourself. Find a woman who shares your underlying values.

That said you are blunt, likely a little too blunt. When you told your girlfriend that "monogamy was important for the social fabric of society and a moral duty to commit to one woman and besides I really don't like the process of meeting new women to date, as it can be emotionally/mentally exhausting to get beyond women's defense mechanisms and to build trust," you were missing the forest for the trees. She was looking for reassurances that you love her and that you see a future with her, instead you misread the situation and you put her in a bad frame, where you seemed to be telling her that because of the hassles of dealing with women, you might agree to settle for her because its just too much of hassle to look for someone else better. Can you see why she might not want to hear that from the man she is dating?

Its that perspective taking that I think you are lacking. You aren't thinking enough about how your words are going to be understood in a given social context. I doubt this woman dumped you because you backed Trump, she might have backed Trump herself. But I think she lost interest when you essentially told her you might be willing to settle for her because its just too much of a hassle to find someone better. No one wants to be put in the position where they aren't their boyfriend's first choice. I know I would have lost interest if my boyfriend said to me, what you said to her.

[Sonic_Spork]

The only aspect of what you're putting out there that seems kind of like a sort of "misogyny" to me, is that I have the impression that you don't actually LIKE women that much, you don't expect to like a woman that you meet, and that the entire business of dating is a huge hassle to achieve a goal. To form a marriage. You don't want to hear a woman's thoughts if you can help it, you don't want to be bothered with her feelings, you just want her to be quiet and step into her rightful place so that you can get on with things.

Let me tell you something. Men are absolutely as emotional as women are. The only reason that men don't think this, is that men don't tend to aim their outbursts at other men quite so much (unless it's violence, which is usually motivated by...you guessed it...a dramatic outburst of emotionality.) Men don't fight and kill each other, cool as cucumbers, with logic and reason and no emotion. Anger is an emotion. And it's a really bothersome one to live with, when the person feeling it can't control themselves. I would rather deal with a crying woman, than a shouting man who punches walls. All day, any day. And I've been with men who never stop moaning and whining and making excuses, and women who buck up and get the job done when the going is tough.

That is an individual matter. But when a woman feels safe and open with a partner, she does want to be able to express how she feels. With a calmer natured person, that's a conversation. You'd be expected to listen, and not make it all about yourself. With a more dramatic person, that might be yelling or crying or something. But one thing I know, is that you're more likely to get the second if you aren't receptive to the first. And it isn't likely that you, in a relationship, refrain from unloading whatever emotional baggage you have on a woman...why would it be so different, for you to do that, compared to when she does that? The only answer is that one of those things gives you relief and the other requires that you do "emotional labor." (Now I'm being more general when I say, "you"...this having to do with just how many men find it intolerable to deal with women's feelings and such. So many have no idea that what burden they find so tiresome to carry, they expect their woman to carry without complaint.)

Bottom line is that you are a person. And so is any woman you meet and try to partner with. Both of you have your share of opinions, both of you arrive at the first date hoping to be respected as human beings. When you say that you find meeting and getting to know women (in general) to be exhausting, I as a woman might infer that you would find interacting with me in a balanced and respectful way, to be "exhausting." Always.

But misogyny aside, if you are truly insecure enough that you need someone around who will never question any of your ideas or decisions, I think I would find that, "exhausting" personally. I have a lot of confidence in my own abilities to manage my life, but I welcome questions and challenges from others, especially my partner. I respect his mind, or I wouldn't be with him. If his point doesn't hold water, I can explain to him why, and if it's valid, I might reconsider my position. This is not an affront to my ego. It's a valued process whereby we can collectively achieve more than either of us could alone. Which is...sort of the point?

[SomeGuyInFairfax]

Originally Posted by Tex?Il?

... , I really deep down think that when it comes to race, gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation/gender identity that the prejudice and discrimination And that any instances of racism and sexism are most likely isolated and not likely part of a long-term trend,

You have no clue. That's largely why people are abandoning you.

Originally Posted by Tex?Il?

.....
and that these issues will just get better over time for people if we don't mess with the natural healing process, and those bad ideas just die with attrition.

What those natural healing processes? Can you cite examples in history when systemic problems were ignored and simply went away?

You acknowledge injury but don't feel anything needs to be done to repair it. If someone broke your leg, would you just hobble along mangled, expecting it to heal normally, on its own?