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So despite all this seemingly "pro" approach (not sure I even get what you're describing), you are still wanting to assign blame to someone?
I have been there. Survivors guilt is real. And the “if only“ doesn’t help you. Because hindsight is always 20/20 and you can clearly see the path that was taken and why afterwards.
There is no blame to be assigned anywhere. The person who was put into this position felt there was no other way out, and that it would be better for everyone if he or she was no longer here. And because you were living your life and you have your own issues to deal with you didn’t see it. It’s not your fault, and it’s not his or her fault. It’s just what happened.
There are grief groups for people who were living with survivors guilt. Seek one out, they’re doing them on zoom I assume, and see what you get out of it. If you don’t get anything out of it, I suggest grief therapy one on one with someone.
You did nothing wrong. More than that, there is probably nothing that you could have done to prevent this.
I agree with all that you've said. I don't expect anyone to scroll back through some of my lengthy posts here, but to summarize - it's not me. I'm (mainly) fine. I am heartbroken, I am sad, I am mad at my friend, at God, and myself - but I do not blame anyone. I will never know what happened, exactly - but (having also been through this before) I constantly tell myself that "Life" wants to go on. If "Life" doesn't - and instead it wants to end itself - then I will assume there was some kind of mental mis-firing going on. Maybe it was undiagnosed long term depression, maybe it was a new brain tumor, maybe he accidentally ate a magic mushroom - I do not know, I will never know, but I choose to believe he wasn't in his "right" mind at the time, and now he's gone.
My questions (yesterday) were based on the inevitable discussions we would have (now past) at church this morning, and with our families, and the unfortunate reality of daytime tv, where the witchhunt is on to find out who caused this. I was just curious if that's the real and right way to handle it - or if, as I remember - nope - it's no one's fault.
I'm glad so many of you agree with me. It's no one's fault, it never is, and assigning blame is just useless. The person ain't coming back. Ever. Best plan is heal up as much as you can - and embrace the life ahead of you, not behind you.
Thank you all for your kind and compassionate words. Crazy times.
I agree with all that you've said. I don't expect anyone to scroll back through some of my lengthy posts here, but to summarize - it's not me. I'm (mainly) fine. I am heartbroken, I am sad, I am mad at my friend, at God, and myself - but I do not blame anyone. I will never know what happened, exactly - but (having also been through this before) I constantly tell myself that "Life" wants to go on. If "Life" doesn't - and instead it wants to end itself - then I will assume there was some kind of mental mis-firing going on. Maybe it was undiagnosed long term depression, maybe it was a new brain tumor, maybe he accidentally ate a magic mushroom - I do not know, I will never know, but I choose to believe he wasn't in his "right" mind at the time, and now he's gone.
My questions (yesterday) were based on the inevitable discussions we would have (now past) at church this morning, and with our families, and the unfortunate reality of daytime tv, where the witchhunt is on to find out who caused this. I was just curious if that's the real and right way to handle it - or if, as I remember - nope - it's no one's fault.
I'm glad so many of you agree with me. It's no one's fault, it never is, and assigning blame is just useless. The person ain't coming back. Ever. Best plan is heal up as much as you can - and embrace the life ahead of you, not behind you.
Thank you all for your kind and compassionate words. Crazy times.
I lost my husband to brain cancer 18 months ago. And you’re right. Life does want to go on. You just have to let it.
But anger is also very normal. It sounds very fresh for you. Your friends are going through something very normal. My husband was a collector, and before I found treasures, I had to work my way through a lot of crap. There was a lot of anger dispersed into all that crap. Anger that he left me with it, anger that he brought it home, anger that he got sick and then died, anger at myself for being angry.
I don’t know that anger isn’t the first step in the healing process. At a certain point I decided that being angry at him was holding me back from doing what I needed to do, so I stopped. Hopefully your friends will also.
Thanks again for the input. I'm angry as well, I think we all are, but it's just..pointless. I think - as you said - perhaps it's the first step.
Anyway, we're thru the weekend, the "official" stuff is all over, now it's just a year of "the first time we've done this without..." kinda things.
It's weird tho' isn't it? I mean - if he had died in an accident, or had a heart attack, or whatever - sad and tragic yes, but - the sensation is just...totally different.
Thanks sonic. I am certainly no pro, I posted seeking pro advice. I do not want to be or pretend to be a pro. I only want to know what conventional wisdom is on this one issue (blame) from the folks that should know.
I agree entirely with your anti martyr point, which is why all involved right now need to know - it is 100% not their fault. (I made the mirror comment only to make the point that what applies to one here applies to all.)
I also agree that in some wierd cases there can be blame. Unfortunately, this new idea makes it very very difficult to draw a line for folks with self doubt.
It was easier to draw the line when it was always no one's fault.
My role is as you said. Thanks.
There is a human tendency to 'blame'. If we can blame, it helps to somewhat mitigate the very scary idea that sometimes, life can be hard, and bad things happen to people, who don't deserve to have bad things happen to them. That can be hard to accept, for a lot of people.
For example, a woman gets gang raped, and everyone starts yelling "Well, she shouldn't have been in that part of town late at night" or "if she hadn't worn that short skirt, that wouldn't have happened", or "If the mother hadn't put her baby on her back" or...ad infinitum.
I think everyone has a breaking point. Just like everyone has the potential to get poison ivy. The problem is...we don't know what the breaking point is for every individual. What that breaking point is, that's up to the individual...but the people around that individual...they are likely going to search their hearts and souls and minds, wondering if they're to blame in someway...because we as humans, are looking for the logic in it, when sometimes there is no logic to it.
Also...when we're grieving for our friends who are going through this stuff, it's OK to just be quiet. It's OK to not know what to say. It's OK to not have the answers.
I'm thinking of the story of Job, who lost all his children through no fault of his own, got leprosy, and life was generally sucking all the way around. Some of Jobs friends just sat with him silently...just being there, providing whatever comfort they could. Other 'friends' urged him to search himself, and try to figure out how he had offended God (blaming Job) for what had happened to him.
There is a human tendency to 'blame'. If we can blame, it helps to somewhat mitigate the very scary idea that sometimes, life can be hard, and bad things happen to people, who don't deserve to have bad things happen to them. That can be hard to accept, for a lot of people.
For example, a woman gets gang raped, and everyone starts yelling "Well, she shouldn't have been in that part of town late at night" or "if she hadn't worn that short skirt, that wouldn't have happened", or "If the mother hadn't put her baby on her back" or...ad infinitum.
I think everyone has a breaking point. Just like everyone has the potential to get poison ivy. The problem is...we don't know what the breaking point is for every individual. What that breaking point is, that's up to the individual...but the people around that individual...they are likely going to search their hearts and souls and minds, wondering if they're to blame in someway...because we as humans, are looking for the logic in it, when sometimes there is no logic to it.
Also...when we're grieving for our friends who are going through this stuff, it's OK to just be quiet. It's OK to not know what to say. It's OK to not have the answers.
I'm thinking of the story of Job, who lost all his children through no fault of his own, got leprosy, and life was generally sucking all the way around. Some of Jobs friends just sat with him silently...just being there, providing whatever comfort they could. Other 'friends' urged him to search himself, and try to figure out how he had offended God (blaming Job) for what had happened to him.
My dad had a saying “It’s like whistling past the graveyard”.
Have you ever noticed when anyone dies everyone talks about it, and they all say things akin to “what happened to Bob?”
“Bob had a heart attack.”
“Well Bob used to eat 14 eggs in a week, and he used margarine.”
The thought is since I don’t do that, this won’t happen to me. Almost like wishcraft.
I just saw this in action on another forum where a poster was posting from the hospital. He’s been in the hospital for a while due to Covid and is recovering. And he is an absolute utter health nut. And some guy brought it up how could this happen to you — you run 5 miles a day, you exercise at a gym four times a week, you eat healthy — this shouldn’t happen to you. The fact of the matter is it does happen to people like that. And diabetic me with hypertension, and my dear sweet neighbor who has diabetes and COPD sailed through Covid like it was a cold. And not even a bad cold. (Although I was terrified the whole time I was sick)
It’s a fear based reaction. Death and illness and pandemics are very scary.
My dad had a saying “It’s like whistling past the graveyard”.
Have you ever noticed when anyone dies everyone talks about it, and they all say things akin to “what happened to Bob?”
“Bob had a heart attack.”
“Well Bob used to eat 14 eggs in a week, and he used margarine.”
The thought is since I don’t do that, this won’t happen to me. Almost like wishcraft.
I just saw this in action on another forum where a poster was posting from the hospital. He’s been in the hospital for a while due to Covid and is recovering. And he is an absolute utter health nut. And some guy brought it up how could this happen to you — you run 5 miles a day, you exercise at a gym four times a week, you eat healthy — this shouldn’t happen to you. The fact of the matter is it does happen to people like that. And diabetic me with hypertension, and my dear sweet neighbor who has diabetes and COPD sailed through Covid like it was a cold. And not even a bad cold. (Although I was terrified the whole time I was sick)
It’s a fear based reaction. Death and illness and pandemics are very scary.
Exactly! We try to fit our logic into things we don't understand, to try and make sense of it.
Every situation is different. I lean towards it's nobody's fault. That said, had I done it a decade ago as I considered, part of the blame would be on my ex-wife (but thats only my skewed opinion), if she had understood her role (unlikely). After I'm gone, I don't know the difference, so a mute point for me. But it ultimately would have been my decision based on feeling completely alone and abandoned and that I "blew it". I now know those stories I told myself aren't true. Still, my life is extremely disappointing and thats on me now. So if I did it now, it would only be my "fault" because I didn't have the knowhow or ability to change my circumstances and view the world differently.
Its always the person who committed suicide's " fault" if you want to call it that. But depending on why they did, mental or physical illness, drug addiction/hopelessness, grief, etc it isn't something to blame someone for, but grieve that they saw no better option.
If someone truly wants to kill themselves, they will find a way. Not everyone has the mental strength or desire to stay here.
In the case of someone dealing with ex/reme pain that is not controllable or a terminal illness that has a horrific future, I understand their desire to not go on.
I believe in dr assisted suicide with very strict conditions, and only for people terminally ill.
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Solly says — Be nice!
