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I think you're dead wrong for not believing her stories of rapes. You said she told you a different story at the time. It's possible she did not want to tell you about the rape, or maybe didn't understand she had been raped.
I was sexually assaulted as a teen, and JUST REMEMBERED THE INCIDENT (I am old). I was too traumatized to make sense of it at the time. I pushed it down and it just arose as a full-blown memory recently.
If you ever want to reconcile with her, you would have to take her word for the rapes and it's weird to me that you wouldn't understand that.
I think this is very true. Something traumatic happened to her daughter, and her mum disbelieving and gossiping behind her back is very triggering. Her daughter probably lies and exaggerates about a lot of stuff, but something happened to derail her. Then she gets attention and is rewarded in some way for her fabrications. But- it has to start somewhere.
Confabulation is a feature of a number of mental illnesses, personality disorders, and neurological issues. Everyone confabulates a little - our brains are wired to fill in gaps in memory and observation - but some people do it to such an extent that it's a real problem for their functioning and relationships.
I have a sibling who is a confabulator. She has some problems that do explain the tendency. I think in her case it's very much exacerbated by the fact that our family downplays, minimizes, and denies problems in general, and traumatic things that happened in our childhoods in particular. Rather than playing along with this suppression and bottling it all up like most of us do, she goes the other way and inflates events and elaborates on them. Between familial gaslighting and her personal behavioral health issues, I think she never learned to observe a situation with clear eyes. If something "feels" big to her, it must actually be correspondingly epic or tragic.
This does kind of put me in mind of the situation with your daughter's alleged sexual assault as a teen. That sort of thing, especially if brushed under a rug, can really knock someone off their rails, especially if they have pre-existing mental health challenges or a predisposition for them.
I think you're dead wrong for not believing her stories of rapes. You said she told you a different story at the time. It's possible she did not want to tell you about the rape, or maybe didn't understand she had been raped.
I was sexually assaulted as a teen, and JUST REMEMBERED THE INCIDENT (I am old). I was too traumatized to make sense of it at the time. I pushed it down and it just arose as a full-blown memory recently.
If you ever want to reconcile with her, you would have to take her word for the rapes and it's weird to me that you wouldn't understand that.
Not to diminish your experiences, but you do realize some people claim, or have been coached into thinking they had XYZ occur to them, which is false, correct?
Not to compare the two or minimize the real trauma rape victims have gone through, but some people claim therapy has helped them to realize they have been abducted by extra-terrestrial beings.
So since the OP knows their daughter much better than every poster on CD combined, I would not insist they be obligated to assume her claims of rape are genuine.
Heck from everything the parents said the child has fictitiously made up this far, it is more likely they have better insight into the daughter, than any armchair quarterbacks.
This can be a strange phenomenon. For many years I saw myself as a "lost soul" who was raised by an alcoholic mother. I'm not sure how I got to that place, except that I also became an alcoholic. Fortunately, long after recovered from alcoholism, my wife intervened. After looking at several family photo albums I had saved (God only knows why), she showed me many, many pictures of a happy little boy together with a loving mother! It had such a positive impact on me, that I changed the story I told myself about being a lost child, into a story of a happy child. The sad thing for me is that I never realized this until after my mother died. Thanks, Mom.
So... they have no way to corroborate the sexual assault. Have you posted about this before? Someone else on City-Data has a similar story about their adult child and I remember being so horrified about how the parent responded that it stuck with me.
I was raped by a friend and former romantic interest in high school. My friends didn't know. My family didn't know. He remained in my social circle and I made up some really lame excuses about why I didn't want to be around him. If any of those friends were asked about my rape, they would have been shocked.
Based simply on the way you handled her acknowledgement of her rape, I can understand why she has no interest in allowing you access to her life. It is incredibly bizarre to me that you trust people who weren't there in the room over your daughter, and that you also seem to have tried to bring those connections and social safety nets for your daughter over to your side.
I try not to project, but I could very well be your daughter. My parents do not acknowledge and probably could pass a lie detector test in not remembering some of their behavior. For instance, my mom threatened me on more than one occasion to "call the foster care people to take me away, and who knows, maybe the foster family would put cigarettes out on me or hit me" when I was a kid. She'd pick up the phone and fake a conversation. She has 0 memory of this. None. Not even a little. Would fight to the death that she never said it. The fear of being abandoned became a hallmark of my childhood as a result.
My parents would cite the braces, after school activities, my excellent grades resulting in a full tuition scholarship to an elite university, and any number of my accomplishments as a reason why they couldn't have been parents who caused real harm. I, like so many estranged adult children, simply want my parents to acknowledge that harm. They will not. Like you, my parents have also convinced family and friends that there's something wrong with my brother and I. That started when we were kids and continues even though we're both successful - and estranged - adults.
What was perhaps lucky for me was that I was diagnosed with stage IV cancer when I was 23, right out of college. My parents didn't show up. They planned and booked an international trip within weeks of my diagnosis, despite telling me they couldn't afford to help me financially or visit me. My mother came months after I beat cancer, and it became clear it was in part to post photos to her friends to look like she saved the day. Why I say it was lucky is because part of my cancer treatment involved starting therapy. It began as a way to unpack facing my mortality as a practical kid, but quickly unraveled into "Why do you think it's your fault that your parents aren't here?" Things broke down soon after that with my relationship with my parents when I no longer was willing to accept how they treated me.
I also say it's lucky because when the smear campaign started and flying monkeys started to intervene on my parents behalf having heard their side of the story, all I had to say was that my parents prioritized an international vacation over their daughter with a life threatening illness. I don't need to justify or defend my point of view any further - that would be enough.
But it's harder for estranged adult children who don't have such a visceral breaking point. It's not normal for adult children to severe relationships with their family, and so often the adult child is blamed for somehow making it up. I'd argue that you're daughter's breaking point is you trying to disprove her rape, going as far as dragging her childhood friends into it. If someone told me their parent did that, that's all I'd need to hear about their relationship to understand why it was in the adult child's interest to severely limit or sever ties.
Really great post.
reminds me that my mom wanted to be at my side when I woke from cancer surgery. I asked her to wait until I got out of the hospital (I figured I'd have enough on my plate without having to cater to her dramatics); that didn't fit the heroic story in her mind, so she never came at all. Or called, or sent a card...
I'm pretty sure she told her friends some story completely different from mine.
This can be a strange phenomenon. For many years I saw myself as a "lost soul" who was raised by an alcoholic mother. I'm not sure how I got to that place, except that I also became an alcoholic. Fortunately, long after recovered from alcoholism, my wife intervened. After looking at several family photo albums I had saved (God only knows why), she showed me many, many pictures of a happy little boy together with a loving mother! It had such a positive impact on me, that I changed the story I told myself about being a lost child, into a story of a happy child. The sad thing for me is that I never realized this until after my mother died. Thanks, Mom.
I absolutely love this.
When I was much younger and dealing with the effects of some of the childhood abuse and disappointments, my story was really blaming . . . now, years later with much greater perspective, I see I had a GREAT childhood - I was so fortunate. Lots of good experiences and lots of resources. Glad I came around.
It's wonderful you have that pic of you and your mom so you can see the good that was in your life.
Frihed's experience is the perfect example of healing by learning the thing about a situation in a different way. Very inspiring.
That rabbit hole of who did what to whom is bottomless and a total distraction to the healing process. But I guess you don't know that until you know that.
I never thought to be in this position in my life but one of my three daughters, the middle child, has become alienated from me and the rest of our family.
There was an online support group which looked interesting so I joined and read stories of other parents' experience in this area. What struck me was the angst on the part of both parent and "child"; slights, abuses, hurtful actions, both real and perceived, on both sides. Most of the estrangement occurs when the "child" decides to remove him or her self from the parent's orbit. The reasons aren't always clear but they are real to the child. There are various suggestions about how best to deal with this.
My problem is unique (as are they all) because my daughter and her sisters did not grow up in anything like the home she describes online via Twitter, FB and other social media. When she posts of the egregious treatment she received during her life with us, we gape at each other in disbelief and wonder why anyone would want to project themselves to be such a tragic victim.
According to her, whom I still love very much and would forgive in a heartbeat, she was very badly treated and told by me that she should have been aborted. Omg. Nothing could be further from the truth. She was a beloved, much-wanted child. Much of what she says about her upbringing is fabrication. No one in our extended family wants anything to do with her because she said a lot of things publicly which weren't true and hurt lots of feelings.
She also claimed to be a rape victim. Not true. If there is a disaster somewhere (9/11, the Newtown school shooting, etc.), she links herself to them by knowing someone or encountered someone or had direct experience with someone who was involved. "People I love have died of COVID19" is a common refrain on her social media which a friend has access to.
She has many diseases, surgeries and other problems which are leading her to death's door, according to her.
She has cut all of us off (we see her messages from a friend on social media). She is getting divorced for a second time. She appears to have a decent job and has held it for about two years. She is involved in local politics. She is a college graduate and bright. She always had friends.
I'm not angry with her. I am worried and concerned. What has happened to my sweet little girl?
One of my four sounds exactly the same (minus the story of rape or any sort of sexual assault - just most of the other stuff, especially telling people all sorts of stories of things that truly never happened). Thankfully the other three know the real deal.
I haven't spoken with her in over three years, and she has FOUR of my grandkids. God only knows how jacked up they are going to be, and what they think of me (which is some crazy stuff and that's putting it nicely). Oh well, I have resigned myself to it, sadly. Hopefully one day the grandkids will contact me but who knows...
Last edited by KathrynAragon; 01-30-2021 at 12:58 PM..
I think you're dead wrong for not believing her stories of rapes. You said she told you a different story at the time. It's possible she did not want to tell you about the rape, or maybe didn't understand she had been raped.
I was sexually assaulted as a teen, and JUST REMEMBERED THE INCIDENT (I am old). I was too traumatized to make sense of it at the time. I pushed it down and it just arose as a full-blown memory recently.
If you ever want to reconcile with her, you would have to take her word for the rapes and it's weird to me that you wouldn't understand that.
I haven't made myself clear on this subject. Her story of rape has changed over time. She and this boy also spent the night together at our house when we were away less than a year later. She was upset with herself because she had a boyfriend at the time and confided to her sisters that she felt terrible about it. They both got drunk, apparently.
Despite my doubts, I have reached out to her to apologize for not believing her and asking her to talk with me about it. She does not want rapprochement. The fact is, she never talked about it with me at all or anyone for that matter. When she talked to her sisters, her story kept evolving. She made the pronouncement and left it at that. My ears are open. I will listen. She ain't talking and it's very doubtful this happened the way she said it did. I do believe he upset her with his advances the first time but then why invite him to stay the night less than a year later? She told her sisters she INVITED him.
It's very confusing. If she talked to me about it I wouldn't reject it out of hand, but as I said, she ain't talking. She does refer to herself publicly as a "rape survivor".
Every time I read these kind of family story it always sounds like the OP is trying to get understanding by talking to strangers when thy should be talking to ether their daughter or a therapist. The people reading this are only getting one side of the story so what ever the posters write in here it won't be of any help other then to make the OP FEEL better.
When I read that the daughter said she was raped and the the parents say she wasn't, I know that the parents can not say that because they weren't there. They will never get close to their child by not acknowledging their own daughters deep concerns. The first thing the parents need to do is except her as an adult and if she wants to stay away then so be it.
I knew there would be criticism of me when beginning this thread. It's difficult to present a full picture to others on a forum like this but I had just been told that she posted publicly that I told her "you should have been aborted". That is so not true.
Her hostility toward her family and especially me began before the rape incident. She started accusing us of things and when pressed to be specific, she was unable to do so.
Another thing. She had a boyfriend after the incident and I told her when/if she wanted to take it a step further, not to be stupid. Tell me you are ready for birth control and I'll take you to the doctor, which is what we did. No questions, none of my business (she was almost 18) and I knew she was protected. She was a virgin when "it" happened. If she had been raped, that would not be the case.
I guess we as parents have to justify ourselves in order to be taken seriously regarding problems with our kids. My daughter had a loving, caring upbringing. She brought home friends with real family problems. One of them used to cut herself. Another one was part of a turbulent blended family. Both spent many nights at our house.
She is drawn to this kind of drama. Portraying herself as a rape victim among many other tragic things breaks my heart, not because of me but because I worry about HER. I'm not here for sympathy. I'm here trying to understand why she would trade the reality of the loving home from which she came to a den of Hell. Why?
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