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Old 07-21-2022, 07:25 AM
Status: "Autism Awareness" (set 18 days ago)
 
1,945 posts, read 714,670 times
Reputation: 3516

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Quote:
Originally Posted by treemoni View Post
It's fascinating. And I can guarantee that same 9/10 received unearned benefits in their life that helped them get where they are, but they don't see it as such because in their world, having an advantage is normal.

Did your parents own their home growing up? Did your grandparents leave something to them that gave them a leg up in life? Did you go to better schools than some of your peers? Etc etc. These are advantageous circumstances people are born into that have nothing to do with anything they've done, but some people don't see if that way because they think they're entitled to these things.

Not interested is anyone who is going to respond with how hard their life was on great grandpa's 30-acre farm in the wilderness. Save the fake bootstrap stories.
You do realize that not everyone who is relatively successful was born with a silver spoon in their mouth, right? And by successful, I don't mean multi-billionaires on the Forbes list. I'm referring to those people that grew up on free or reduced lunch, got donations as gifts during holidays, but who still managed to go to college (on their dime) and place themselves into a firm middle class life. A good portion of people in this country are relatively successful/lucky in that sense.

And I don't think anyone here has dismissed the fact that someone from a broken home, who grew up in a dangerous environment, and who didn't have the resources of those who had a loving family is at a clear disadvantage. You'd have to be dumb or willfully ignorant to think otherwise.
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Old 07-21-2022, 07:50 AM
 
4,543 posts, read 2,962,554 times
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I'm talking about the people posting here. The fact that you have access to a computer to post on a forum, during work hours if you're working...is a privilege. You don't have to be heir to a fortune to be privileged, and that's what many of you don't seem to understand (or don't want to accept). The fact that your example highlights people on the Forbes list speaks volumes, but you can't see it. If you are using such an extreme example, it suggests you have money. You can't see it because whatever you have you think you deserve. It's a form of entitlement. Most people here have benefit from some form of inherited wealth. It doesm't have to be "grandpa left me a million dollars". That's what you don't understand.
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Old 07-21-2022, 07:55 AM
 
2,233 posts, read 730,399 times
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Is luck normally distributed? Or uniformly distributed? Or via some other distribution?

We all know someone who, when they go to Las Vegas, they always come back with more money in their pockets.
Yeah, I'm not that guy.
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Old 07-21-2022, 07:58 AM
 
2,233 posts, read 730,399 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnaGWS View Post
"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." ~Roman Philosopher Seneca
People who achieve greatness have stories.

People who are failures in life have excuses.
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Old 07-21-2022, 08:05 AM
Status: "Autism Awareness" (set 18 days ago)
 
1,945 posts, read 714,670 times
Reputation: 3516
Quote:
Originally Posted by treemoni View Post
I'm talking about the people posting here. The fact that you have access to a computer to post on a forum, during work hours if you're working...is a privilege. You don't have to be heir to a fortune to be privileged, and that's what many of you don't seem to understand (or don't want to accept). The fact that your example highlights people on the Forbes list speaks volumes, but you can't see it. If you are using such an extreme example, it suggests you have money. You can't see it because whatever you have you think you deserve. It's a form of entitlement. Most people here have benefit from some form of inherited wealth. It doesm't have to be "grandpa left me a million dollars". That's what you don't understand.
I also know that a big reason why we like to have these discussions is to lessen the accountability factor.

To attribute good fortune or success to anything other than luck removes any responsibility we have over our lives.

In other words, the only reason I'm successful is due to luck. The only reason someone else is not successful is due to bad luck. And just like that, nobody is responsible for any of the outcomes in their lives. Makes those tough pills much easier to swallow, right?

Like I said, I'm not dismissing the fact that luck plays a role in our outcomes; it does. But guess what else does, too? Taking ownership and responsibility over your life. Taking risks. Resiliency.

The problem is that these forums only shed a smidgen of light on who you're talking to. I'm sure you have this grandiose vision of the "people on this thread", including myself. Do you think that I've never experienced bad luck in my life? I have. Life has been very hard for me at times, but sure, not as hard as someone who grew up in the ghetto. You assuming that our lives have been a cake walk is just as ignorant as someone who assumes that those from lesser means has equal opportunities as everyone else.
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Old 07-21-2022, 08:14 AM
 
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I answered your question modest. You can see my view on "luck" in an earlier response.
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Old 07-21-2022, 08:56 AM
Status: "Autism Awareness" (set 18 days ago)
 
1,945 posts, read 714,670 times
Reputation: 3516
Quote:
Originally Posted by treemoni View Post
I'm talking about the people posting here. The fact that you have access to a computer to post on a forum, during work hours if you're working...is a privilege. You don't have to be heir to a fortune to be privileged, and that's what many of you don't seem to understand (or don't want to accept). The fact that your example highlights people on the Forbes list speaks volumes, but you can't see it. If you are using such an extreme example, it suggests you have money. You can't see it because whatever you have you think you deserve. It's a form of entitlement. Most people here have benefit from some form of inherited wealth. It doesm't have to be "grandpa left me a million dollars". That's what you don't understand.
And how do you know that? Assumptions?

And if I'm supposed to be so blind and ignorant to how life really works, then how is it that I have achieved any level of "success" that I have?
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Old 07-21-2022, 11:35 AM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
18,242 posts, read 11,894,891 times
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See I think that people who feel some need to see this as all one thing and not the other, are going to spark a spiral of defensiveness. It isn't one thing or another, it's both.

In a way, everyone who is posting here has benefited from some sort of "luck" if they are sitting at a computer in a room with electricity, breathing in and out. In a way. You did not get hit by a truck yesterday. Cool! Lucky!

I did not benefit from inherited wealth, in fact shortly after I became an adult I was left to be homeless by my family of origin, all of whom were pretty much done with me or were else so dysfunctional that they could not help, only harm. But...my first husband had relatives who helped us out of that troubled time. Not a lot, but just enough. We took what small advantage we had and ran with it. There was hard work and responsibility at play, at times, but of course we were not perfect. We also made mistakes. None of those mistakes was a "game over" moment, though...lucky!

I also later fell in love with the man who would become my second husband and a few years into our relationship, he revealed that behind the present day reality of his very modest means, was an expected inheritance down the road. Maybe. If we are lucky enough that Dad's medical needs between now and the end of his life do not deplete it. We don't know...we'll do what must be done and accept whatever is left when it's all over. All you can do is the "next right thing"...which as of now, is making this beloved relative as comfortable and happy as possible for the remainder of his days.

He feels lucky that we are here to help him. But he's also earned it, being a good father to his son for over 60 years and counting. He deserves it, but that never meant that he would get it, that kind of love and investment on the part of his son. Recognizing the element of "luck" or just...something out of one's own control, which includes the choices made by other people over which we have no control...can just be a matter of having a sense of gratitude, rather than entitlement. It isn't so much an objective question of which thing is real or not real...it's more a psychological question of how you frame the circumstances of your own life.

I don't think it needs to be a matter of the question, is this your fault/that isn't my fault. There is a difference between fault and responsibility. I also don't believe that it's good to fall into a just world fallacy way of thinking, where you look at someone who has less in life and think of them as less deserving of respect. It need not be like that. You can be proud of your own achievements, have gratitude for those instances of good fortune that you've experienced, AND treat others with respect regardless. Insisting that everything is luck, all of the time...will come off as disrespectful to those who have worked hard in life. Insisting that everything is hard work and luck is not a thing at all...will come off as disrespectful to those who were born into disadvantageous circumstances, or those who HAVE worked hard and yet nevertheless had things out of their control dramatically reduce their rewards and standing.

Especially if there are structures in place that make the game feel rigged. Like, you work your butt off your whole life, do everything right, have a decent life and money saved and plans for the future. And then one day, your teenage kid is at the local mall and gets shot. Out of nowhere. They are not in the ghetto, they are not starting a fight, it was just some random wacko spraying bullets, because that's a thing that can happen these days. They don't die, they have their spine severed. The medical expenses, despite the insurance you always thought would have you covered for a disaster, are so high that they deplete everything you've got, because hey ho America, where healthcare is a for profit endeavor like every other thing. And suddenly despite all your good choices, hard work, smart plans, and careful, responsible living... Now everything is turned on its head and you have nothing, and will spend the rest of your days struggling to support a disabled dependent.

You can't think about such a scenario, and then tell me that there is nothing remotely like luck or chance or whatever word you want to use for things you could never plan for, foresee as a reasonable person, or control...
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Old 07-21-2022, 11:53 AM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
24,543 posts, read 25,109,323 times
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I think "bad luck" is a good thing.

It makes you strive that much harder to be successful.
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Old 07-23-2022, 04:51 PM
 
Location: minnesota
13,456 posts, read 4,596,500 times
Reputation: 4228
Quote:
Originally Posted by treemoni View Post
I'm talking about the people posting here. The fact that you have access to a computer to post on a forum, during work hours if you're working...is a privilege. You don't have to be heir to a fortune to be privileged, and that's what many of you don't seem to understand (or don't want to accept). The fact that your example highlights people on the Forbes list speaks volumes, but you can't see it. If you are using such an extreme example, it suggests you have money. You can't see it because whatever you have you think you deserve. It's a form of entitlement. Most people here have benefit from some form of inherited wealth. It doesm't have to be "grandpa left me a million dollars". That's what you don't understand.
An awful lot of people have abusive families they escape from with nothing. I left home and a cult at the same time at the age of 19. I had $50 to my name after putting a deposit and first month in some crappy apartment in a sketchy area. I came close to homeless many times. I'm not rich but I went from that to being able to finally be the first in my line to help the next generation.
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