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Old 09-26-2023, 10:35 AM
 
Location: Juneau, AK + Puna, HI
10,409 posts, read 7,507,369 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80 View Post
In my opinion, there are some big problems with the modern-day psychedelic movement:

1) Bias: people who have good experiences with these drugs are often biased in their favor. They might downplay the dangers. Psychedelics have a tendency to create "evangelists." Rick Doblin is a case in point. He's behind much of the modern push for legalization and medicalization.
..
DOBLIN: Yeah. So I think that psychedelics have a role to play in the survival and thriving of humanity, but it doesn't mean everybody should take them. And it also doesn't mean that psychedelics are the only way to get through these experiences. So I think one of the big mistakes of the '60s was that the advocates said, I've taken psychedelics; I know more than anybody; unless you've taken psychedelics, you don't really know what's going on, and exaggerated the benefits and minimized the risks. In the face of the government that was getting more and more scared about psychedelics and counterculture, they were denying the benefits, suppressing the research and exaggerating the risks.

https://www.npr.org/transcripts/978814555

A lot of interesting links at the Johns Hopkins center for Psychedelic & Consciousness Research site.

https://hopkinspsychedelic.org/
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Old 09-26-2023, 10:47 AM
 
Location: 'greater' Buffalo, NY
5,342 posts, read 3,825,317 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lodestar View Post
I tend to be cautionary having lived through the Sixties and seeing the damage done. Thanks for the song, Neil Young. Can we tame that with experimentation and knowledge? Can the quirks of the individual mind be known and mastered?

Maybe one of the reasons these chemicals can be useful is that stripping of identity that people experience. It may give a person a new way of looking at themselves and their interactions with their world. Suggest possibilities.

It is also within that very experience that some seem to become trapped. We used to say, "He took a trip and never came back."

The sense of oneness with all things is a tempering one. Something many people naturally intuit.
It seems a thoughtful and healthy approach to life. But humans need safety, boundaries, common sense in the material world. Maybe that's why those meditating on such things sought out a quite cave or mountain peak to live in the dream. LOL

As young people we are more experimental, take more risks, I think. It is true that everyone needs a vacation from reality now and then. It's, heavy stuff, Man. And actually it is healthy to have an occasional escape. But moderation is the key to using relief in a healthy manner.

With these drugs there is so much unpredictability. What will be moderate about the first dose?

I've been on the "guiding" end after the damage.

We had books, education, experience, a team of psychology experts, spiritual counselors, medical doctors, social workers, physical and job therapy people trying to solve the problem of how to help that eighteen-year-old lying up there in the psych ward crying and frightened because he didn't know who he was any more.

Usually that meant eventually passing him on to a half-way house where there would be even less therapy and knowledge and hoping time would clear the brain. In spite of caring, expense and time most of those people found their way to a half-life of sorts on the streets. They were like hollowed out, eccentric cyphers.

It occurs to me a large part of the puzzle was that an eighteen-year-old doesn't have much of a "there" to return to. Perhaps older, more experienced people benefit from having a more solidified sense of self. Like it or not, at least there's an anchor.
Interesting last few paragraphs. I would be interested to hear you elaborate even more about your clinical experiences dealing with those who'd suffered from bad trips. I initially only responded to point out that Neil Young's (great) song is on the subject of heroin usage, not hallucinogens....
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Old 09-26-2023, 04:24 PM
 
Location: USA
18,423 posts, read 9,044,532 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D217 View Post
I was accidentally dosed a puddle in the palm of my hand instead of a few drops. (I was @ a rave in the DC Armory, thousands of people there) A friend led me outside to the car, and on the way, faces of strangers around me were literally turning into demons. Then, when we finally found the hotel, I made the mistake of looking in the mirror... There were good, and funny, and interesting times along the way, but my inner reality had changed significantly, and the experience had altered my personality, I think for the worse - it was more depressing for me than anything, as I had internalized everything. It was just too much and something that took a while to shake afterward. Not sure if it's a coincidence, but I started getting ocular migraines about 6 months later, and I still get them to this day, twenty-some years later.
What a bummer.
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Old 09-28-2023, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Southern MN
11,912 posts, read 8,234,872 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Marcinkiewicz View Post
Interesting last few paragraphs. I would be interested to hear you elaborate even more about your clinical experiences dealing with those who'd suffered from bad trips. I initially only responded to point out that Neil Young's (great) song is on the subject of heroin usage, not hallucinogens....
Suspected one of you rascally nitpickers would point that out. In a larger metaphorical sense, if you can make the leap, I thought it applied to any number of mind-altering substances.

Matt, you're so literal.
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Old 09-28-2023, 09:26 PM
 
Location: minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lluvia View Post
Or you can grow your own spores and cut out big pharma.
Where?
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Old 09-28-2023, 09:54 PM
 
Location: Juneau, AK + Puna, HI
10,409 posts, read 7,507,369 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8 View Post
Where?
Seek and ye shall find, via the internet.

Depending upon your outdoor environment, it can be possible to establish them outside. PNW has a few wild species, so it'd be entirely possible to grow an outdoor culture in wood chips or straw. I believe some of the tropical varieties could be grown in southern states.

Otherwise, create a sterile indoor lab for growing inside. Most people buy spore syringes for inoculating jars or trays of grain spawn.

But check your local laws. Although enforcement is likely to be lax, technically doing this is not legal in most states.
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Old 09-29-2023, 03:26 AM
 
Location: Middle of the valley
48,287 posts, read 34,411,101 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8 View Post
Where?
Everywhere online
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Old 10-13-2023, 11:10 AM
 
4,025 posts, read 3,258,109 times
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The National Alliance for the Mentally Ill (Nami) puts on it Family to Family program which functions as a support group for family members dealing with a mental illness. Now the thing that really stood out was that about a third to half of the people there were dealing with a family member who had a Dual Diagnosis, they were dealing with both mental illness and a substance abuse problem.

The medical professional doesn't spend a whole lot of time worrying which way the causality flows once you have both diagnosises because that is now water under the bridge.

But I will say in my own family the substance abuse proceeded the mental illnesses. I have one brother who is bipolar and another who is bipolar schizo affective. All three of my brothers have gone through the twelve step process. It looks like who developed a mental illness is a function of genes and environmental causes. What I wonder about is how much do recreational drugs act as an environmental risk factor. My brother who is most acutely ill with the most severe symptoms was also the brother who took the most acid and I have always assumed that their was a link between the two.

I see value in doing medical research to see if hallucinogens can help with PTSD, but I think making hallucinogens more easily accessible to the general public as a problem. Mental illness can really screw up your life and I do worry that we are going to be creating more psych patients here.
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Old 10-13-2023, 12:06 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
20,216 posts, read 14,443,385 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shelato View Post
The National Alliance for the Mentally Ill (Nami) puts on it Family to Family program which functions as a support group for family members dealing with a mental illness. Now the thing that really stood out was that about a third to half of the people there were dealing with a family member who had a Dual Diagnosis, they were dealing with both mental illness and a substance abuse problem.

The medical professional doesn't spend a whole lot of time worrying which way the causality flows once you have both diagnosises because that is now water under the bridge.

But I will say in my own family the substance abuse proceeded the mental illnesses. I have one brother who is bipolar and another who is bipolar schizo affective. All three of my brothers have gone through the twelve step process. It looks like who developed a mental illness is a function of genes and environmental causes. What I wonder about is how much do recreational drugs act as an environmental risk factor. My brother who is most acutely ill with the most severe symptoms was also the brother who took the most acid and I have always assumed that their was a link between the two.

I see value in doing medical research to see if hallucinogens can help with PTSD, but I think making hallucinogens more easily accessible to the general public as a problem. Mental illness can really screw up your life and I do worry that we are going to be creating more psych patients here.
My son (schizo-affective) did not have the drugs come first, at least in hindsight...it was more like escalation of family trauma with his father's mental break and violent actions really kicked things off, though he was always a bit of an "out of the box" thinker to begin with. And very intelligent, which I think many people who are mentally ill also are. At ten he was teaching himself coding and stop motion animation and could pick up just about any musical instrument and in short order, play anything he could hear recognizably. But a few years later things got bad at home and he was deep in depression and anxiety, started to lose function at school, health problems related to eating and digestion started to show up... I got him out of there, and for a time he was just very quiet. I thought he was healing, and I tried to balance being there and engaged with giving him space. But he kept struggling in school, and then the suicidal ideation began. It was after his first hospitalization that his father started giving him weed.

And it was after that, that the more severe psychosis ramped up as around age 17-19. Intense paranoia, delusions, and fear. Beyond anxiety into terror and elaborate thoughts of persecution. But they also had him on an antidepressant at that time that seemed to make things a lot worse, when they got him off that and had him try an anti-psychotic, that's when the situation began to improve. And then more when he stopped smoking weed and drinking and whatever other self-medicating he was doing. He was probably at his best and most functional at Job Corps where he had to be "clean" and they regulated his meds.

So I think that the recreational drugs were part of the picture but I think he would have always had issues anyways. Probably not as severe, though. And some of the stuff kind of echoes things that I've heard from his father at times, and one of his doctors told us that schizo-type disorders have strong indicators for being hereditary.

Regardless, hallucinogens have not done my son any favors and he has told me he will never touch them again after the last time he did LSD with some friends years ago. Either he experiences "nothing" (at normal or smaller doses, I would guess?) or he has a very bad experience where the believes that he is dying. Not a lot in between.
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