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Old 09-15-2023, 10:50 AM
 
813 posts, read 384,083 times
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First, feel free to move this to a different category if I've put it in the wrong one. I looked around, and figured this might be an appropriate place.

I was reading an article in the Associated Press this morning that stated psilocybin mushrooms are now legal in the state of Oregon, but not for carry out or take home. They're pitching this as a psychological medical thing. According to the article, taking the mushrooms can rearrange our brain, something I seriously doubt, but I'm sure it can give people a different way of looking at things.

Back in the 60's I was into psychedelics, and mushrooms were readily available in most cow fields, usually in the early mornings after a rain. The only trouble was that you had no idea of the dosage. The trip was less intense than LSD, but it was still a powerful experience. You had to follow Timothy Leary's advice of set and setting, meaning you had to make sure you were already in a good space in your mind, and were in a safe environment that would be comfortable and pleasant.

The Native Americans used it for for a spiritual experience, and I did come away changed from taking the mushrooms. But looking back, I think it just put me in touch w/ parts of my mind that I hadn't explored. It made the obvious more obvious, if that makes any sense. You certainly came away w/ a different outlook, and it was still the same old me the next day, but I did see it as more of a religious experience. It probably led me to be less materialistic and more focused and appreciative of the here and now. For someone who is experiencing psychological issues from past experiences, it might have a different effect.

Because they've chosen to do this in a medicinal manner, which is probably the safe way to go, the cost is staggering. $2,000 for a 6 hour experience with a guidance person. We just picked them in the fields for free. There is also a bit of pre trip counseling to explore whether or not the client is a good candidate for the experience. For some time I've been reading about military veterans using similar drugs to get past the bad experiences they had in war, and it seems to be very effective.
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Old 09-16-2023, 04:54 PM
 
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Interesting. This is something I've thought about trying to help rewire the dysfunction in my mind. I've never used drugs out of fear of something going wrong or getting bad product, so it would be nice to have a "guidance person". $2K is a bit steep for a one day deal...a few hundred is more reasonable. My son uses mushrooms but I don't feel comfortable talking about it with him.

Oregon's got it going on, with magic mushrooms AND legalized assisted suicide. Maybe a "death package" could become a thing, where someone terminal can experience a profound psychological trip prior to ending their life.
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Old 09-17-2023, 05:37 PM
 
Location: Southern MN
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Yes, the psychoactive drugs definitely affect and change the neurons in the brain. Don't trust opinion. Look it up.

Sometimes this opens the door for positive change but I'd doubt its usefulness for healing trauma without an additional program of talk therapy.

What Oregon is doing is opening itself up for lawsuits and getting a lot of free experimentation on human guinea pigs.

Good luck everybody. Big pharma is going to be the beneficiary of this grand scheme.
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Old 09-19-2023, 08:21 PM
 
Location: Planet Earth Milky Way
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lodestar View Post
Yes, the psychoactive drugs definitely affect and change the neurons in the brain. Don't trust opinion. Look it up.

Sometimes this opens the door for positive change but I'd doubt its usefulness for healing trauma without an additional program of talk therapy.

What Oregon is doing is opening itself up for lawsuits and getting a lot of free experimentation on human guinea pigs.

Good luck everybody. Big pharma is going to be the beneficiary of this grand scheme.
Or you can grow your own spores and cut out big pharma.
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Old 09-20-2023, 01:18 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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They decriminalized them in Denver, too, and then in all of Colorado.

I have a friend there who wants me to try them with her, she "micro doses" frequently. I might one day, I don't know. But I had strong rules for myself for hallucinogens, from ages back as a teenager taking LSD. Of course, acid is different because the trip is longer, I think. But my whole thing with that was to only take them at home and to never leave my home and to make sure I had no plans to be responsible for anything, for a full 24 hour period or longer, to not only allow for the trip, but any need to crash and recover the next day. At the age I am now, I would expect my old experiences to need a legit crash day for sure since I used to pull an "all nighter" when I tripped, then shower and sleep the following day...I have not pulled anything like and all nighter in ages and I'm wiped out if I stay up past my bedtime! lol Also, since I had kids and became an adult really, I haven't had the luxury of a whole weekend or even a day where I had no expectation of responsibilities I might have to handle.

But the thing is...my friend, she describes all of her experiences with hallucinogens vastly different from what my acid trips were like. She talks about all this "feeling of oneness with the universe" stuff. Personally, I didn't get anything like that. But I'm not a very mystical person and was not in search of a spiritual experience. I just got a sense of cool clarity, a shutting down of my typical thought narratives (similar to the effects of ADHD meds, ephedrines, and other powerful stimulants on me) and beautiful visual hallucinations that were just colors and movements and distortions and patterns. And just an obsessive desire to LOOK and look, to an extent that all other bodily urges or imperatives were totally suppressed. I did not want to speak, or think, or eat, or have sex, I just wanted to spend the hours enjoying all of the pretty visuals.

I don't know if mushrooms will be like that for me or not.

My son has schizo affective disorder and for a while he decided to mess with recreational drugs (despite me and others telling him this was a bad idea.) He had some experiences with LSD that he said were like "nothing"...no visuals, nothing much of an effect from what he said... But then there was one where he freaked out. He said he was paralyzed and felt that he kept falling into a void and he really thought that he was dying. That was the last time he did that.

So I've got ADHD for certain and my son certainly is not "neurotypical" and I think that the effects of hallucinogens and other drugs are going to be very different for different people with variances in their normal brain chemistry. In fact the prescribed medication that my son needs to keep him tethered to reality, if someone who doesn't need it takes it, it'll make them hallucinate and pass out. So sometimes even the proper diagnosis of what's going on with a mentally ill person can be linked to just "what drug works?"...when he was in the process that took a couple of years, of the pros trying to figure out what was going on, they tried him on a variety of meds and some didn't work, some made it worse, eventually we got it dialed in.

So we can't just say, "this drug does X." Especially with drugs that affect the mind. There might be commonly experienced effects, but there will also be a lot of variability. I do like the idea of having something specified in the laws that if you take shrooms (any hallucinogens) you should not be out in the world, you should be either in a controlled environment equipped to handle hallucinating people, or perhaps in your own home. A "public intoxication" law sort of thing. And this is to protect those on the drugs, at least as much as it is to protect others from them.

I will never forget video I saw of an incident where a teenage boy was killed by police because they found him wandering around on LSD in a park. They put him in a wagon and repeatedly tazed him until he died. They laughed. It was all on video. I get chills and want to cry when I think of it, that could have been me, any of my friends, many of my loved ones, my own child. People who are on these drugs are vulnerable and need to be somewhere safe.
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Old 09-20-2023, 08:15 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post

So we can't just say, "this drug does X." Especially with drugs that affect the mind. There might be commonly experienced effects, but there will also be a lot of variability.
That's why I've always been afraid to try certain drugs. I'd want to be with someone who was experienced and knew what to expect, or what to do if something went wrong. I don't want it to involve big pharma or government in any way, it's not of their concern what I do for self-care.

I've only tried weed twice in my life, both times it made me extremely sick and uncomfortable and scared me off for good. I'd be open to trying mushrooms in a very safe, controlled experience.
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Old 09-21-2023, 12:31 AM
 
Location: Juneau, AK + Puna, HI
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Here's a good story about it. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/oregon-...public-access/

"..Epic Healing Eugene - America's first licensed psilocybin service center - opened in June, marking Oregon's unprecedented step in offering the mind-bending drug to the public. The center now has a waitlist of more than 3,000 names, including people with depression, PTSD or end-of-life dread..."

During my college days at Bellingham, friends and I would pick the P. semilanceata "liberty cap" shrooms growing in local cow fields, dry them and then ingest via a hot tea concoction. Hilarity and heightened visual acuity would follow. The "trips" would last about 4-6 hours max. Nothing but good times as I recall, though it was generally considered prudent not to take a huge dose. Eating anything afterwards would diminish the effects, but then appetite is suppressed while under the influence so this usually isn't an issue.

Several years later I tried some locally grown P. Cubensis maybe a handful of times at the most and didn't enjoy them so much. Possibly it was the setting, my state of mind, aging brain or even the mushroom variety responsible for this, who knows? Mild paranoia was the undesirable affect. On one occasion the experience really brought to my attention that I was actually sick, suffering from some sort of virus. Needless to say, don't use if you're not feeling healthy.

For mental health therapeutic sessions I get the impression that it's best to do so in a controlled, indoor environment with a guide. This seems quite sensible, but on the other hand for recreational use I always thought it was best to be outside in nature.
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Old 09-21-2023, 11:10 AM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
20,220 posts, read 14,453,521 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heavymind View Post
That's why I've always been afraid to try certain drugs. I'd want to be with someone who was experienced and knew what to expect, or what to do if something went wrong. I don't want it to involve big pharma or government in any way, it's not of their concern what I do for self-care.

I've only tried weed twice in my life, both times it made me extremely sick and uncomfortable and scared me off for good. I'd be open to trying mushrooms in a very safe, controlled experience.
I used to really enjoy smoking weed as a teen, but this was in the 90s when it was all just...lower grade, black market stuff. Many years later when it became legal where I was, I tried to smoke it again once and it made me feel very sick. It was not a good time.

Meanwhile my ex became a daily user and I don't care what anyone thinks, he is addicted and it's harmful to his life...but then he wasn't a very mentally healthy man to begin with, either. I've just seen too many people develop a daily habit where they don't even seem to get "fun high" anymore, they are "medicating" and it changes them, and not for the better. At least from the perspective of an outside observer. THEY think they need it. And they freak out if they can't get it.

I'm over it with weed. I'm fine never touching it again. Don't think that a good solution for drug use is putting people in jail though, even if/when it's a problem.

The thing about hallucinogens, yeah that "set and setting" stuff is important. Best practices will be with someone who can help to try and craft a good experience in a place where you feel very safe. But the variable that no one can really control for is going to be your own brain chemistry. And while most likely, most people will have a certain experience...there will be some who have a totally different one because of what is already going on in their head. Someone who is "babysitting" needs to know how to just help you get through it, if it doesn't go well. Eventually, it'll end, regardless...ya just have to wait.

Not that this will make sense to the brain that's under the influence necessarily. At least with acid, time had no meaning just as a lot of other things I would usually have awareness of fell away into irrelevance.
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Old 09-21-2023, 11:17 AM
 
1,053 posts, read 442,463 times
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Too bad psychologists are trying to profit off of this natural plant healing.

If they won't allow it for sale, then microdosing will not be a big thing, unless the psychologists want to get in on that too. With microdosing, you do not need supervision - there are no intoxicating effects - you can't tell you're "on" anything . . . it's very subtle.

I hope this gets sorted out so that people can actually be helped by the sacred plant medicine.
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Old 09-21-2023, 07:33 PM
 
Location: Southern MN
11,916 posts, read 8,244,234 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by considerforamoment View Post
Too bad psychologists are trying to profit off of this natural plant healing.

If they won't allow it for sale, then microdosing will not be a big thing, unless the psychologists want to get in on that too. With microdosing, you do not need supervision - there are no intoxicating effects - you can't tell you're "on" anything . . . it's very subtle.

I hope this gets sorted out so that people can actually be helped by the sacred plant medicine.
You do realize that the chemicals which make up those natural plants can all be duplicated in the lab, don't you? Everything is made from chemical compounds.

Your post raises questions for me.

How does a person know he is being healed?

Is it permanent or just treating the symptoms and has to be repeated?

Do we know what the long-term side-effects are?

What happens if a person should have an unusual negative experience or is it a 100% guarantee that supervision is unnecessary?
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