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Old 10-23-2023, 04:29 PM
 
7,583 posts, read 4,137,315 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Ok, this question isn't about people who hold strong opinions and can't be swayed by fact. Rather this is about very simple situations where simple learning an understanding should be obvious but some people just keep doing the same thing. Kind of like pounding on a wall rather than walking through the door.

Prime example that brought this up: An item won't fit in the space available. Becomes pretty obvious really quick that it's too big (long, wide, tall, whatever) to fit. Yet someone keep shoving, pushing, twisting, trying to make it fit. Even telling them to stop for a minute and think about it just get's more shoving.

Why does it bother me? Because I'm one of the people who has to clean up the mess and fix things after these folks create a mess or wind up breaking something along the way.
Is this part of your job? Or is it something that happens at home? Doesn't fixing up messes mean that you can't take care of other things that this other "unteachable" person might start to miss? Maybe they can start picking up the slack.
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Old 10-23-2023, 05:02 PM
 
Location: Ashland, Oregon
807 posts, read 568,315 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E-Twist View Post
Frustration? Why do people throw things in anger or put their fist through a wall?
Years ago, I read the funniest article in TV Guide written by Gene Shalit (I think) about how people get mad at their TV sets. Omg. Everything from putting your foot through it to throwing it out the window. People do some strange things. Perhaps destruction of an item or wall satisfies an atavistic desire for violence. I dunno. But sometimes it's funny.
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Old 10-23-2023, 05:05 PM
 
Location: Ashland, Oregon
807 posts, read 568,315 times
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Okay, I'm avoiding going into politics here, but... when you can demonstrate to someone with adequate and sometimes glaring truth that their beliefs should be, um, "revised" and they reject any new information, that can be frustrating. Going to stop now.
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Old 10-23-2023, 05:25 PM
 
1,942 posts, read 917,777 times
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Doubling down on willful ignorance has become as American as apple pie, like a badge of honor

Last edited by rokuremote; 10-23-2023 at 05:48 PM..
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Old 10-23-2023, 08:23 PM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,300 posts, read 84,311,090 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rokuremote View Post
Doubling down on willful ignorance has become as American as apple pie, like a badge of honor
Willful ignorance sounds like a polite term for what I call chosen stupidity.
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Old 10-23-2023, 09:01 PM
 
12,718 posts, read 8,933,704 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
When my former manager and I were looking for new people, our goal was to simply identify someone who was smart. Oh they needed good writing and editing skills and a few other concrete requirements, but it was a specific facet of public procurement few people have experience in. If they were SMART, we could teach them and they would catch on, and that's what we looked for.

Note that being smart and having certain degrees or education are not the same thing.
Agree. Some of the machinists that worked for me had better insight than some of the engineers. I'm a big proponent of spending time on the floor getting to know those guys because they see things I don't.

Also agree that public procurement is a weird animal that those outside don't know. Been part of quite a fe source selections over the years so I became one of those strange creatures who could translate between the operators and the scientists and the contracting officer and finance. None of those groups speak the same language.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elyn02 View Post
Is this part of your job? Or is it something that happens at home? Doesn't fixing up messes mean that you can't take care of other things that this other "unteachable" person might start to miss? Maybe they can start picking up the slack.
Yep, it was part of my job, and now I see it in my volunteer job as well. If it only impacted them, I wouldn't care; but it impacts others so I can't just ignore it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
Willful ignorance sounds like a polite term for what I call chosen stupidity.
I often use "intentional stupidity."
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Old 10-23-2023, 09:40 PM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,300 posts, read 84,311,090 times
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Quote:
Been part of quite a few source selections over the years so I became one of those strange creatures who could translate between the operators and the scientists and the contracting officer and finance. None of those groups speak the same language.
Ha, I built a career on being able to speak to engineers and then translate their engineerese into English for the stakeholders and finance people. I managed a couple of very large, involved procurements before I retired, and I had to keep the various stakeholders from squabbling and posturing amongst themselves. I told my boss that the life experience that had best prepared me for the job was my stint as a Girl Scout leader when the girls were in the prepubescent stage.
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Old 10-24-2023, 06:55 AM
 
18,074 posts, read 25,177,563 times
Reputation: 16796
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Ok, this question isn't about people who hold strong opinions and can't be swayed by fact. Rather this is about very simple situations where simple learning an understanding should be obvious but some people just keep doing the same thing. Kind of like pounding on a wall rather than walking through the door.

Prime example that brought this up: An item won't fit in the space available. Becomes pretty obvious really quick that it's too big (long, wide, tall, whatever) to fit. Yet someone keep shoving, pushing, twisting, trying to make it fit. Even telling them to stop for a minute and think about it just get's more shoving.

Why does it bother me? Because I'm one of the people who has to clean up the mess and fix things after these folks create a mess or wind up breaking something along the way.
This is my definition of intelligence
Intelligence is not how much a person knows, intelligence is how good is a person at learning something new or adapting to a new situation.
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Old 10-24-2023, 07:15 AM
 
Location: Coastal Georgia
50,180 posts, read 63,636,357 times
Reputation: 92930
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
When my former manager and I were looking for new people, our goal was to simply identify someone who was smart. Oh they needed good writing and editing skills and a few other concrete requirements, but it was a specific facet of public procurement few people have experience in. If they were SMART, we could teach them and they would catch on, and that's what we looked for.

Note that being smart and having certain degrees or education are not the same thing.
Same principle as a restaurant hiring for personality, and teaching how to wait tables, or a doctors office hiring a cheerful receptionist.
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Old 10-24-2023, 02:41 PM
 
12,718 posts, read 8,933,704 times
Reputation: 34712
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
Ha, I built a career on being able to speak to engineers and then translate their engineerese into English for the stakeholders and finance people. I managed a couple of very large, involved procurements before I retired, and I had to keep the various stakeholders from squabbling and posturing amongst themselves. I told my boss that the life experience that had best prepared me for the job was my stint as a Girl Scout leader when the girls were in the prepubescent stage.
I'm sitting here grinning like puppy at that image because I've lived it. Been a Boy Scout leader for years. Honestly, I'd much rather deal with a bunch of boys that age than the adults in a source selection. A group of teen boys in the woods with knives and matches are easier to keep focused on a goal than many senior managers in a room.
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