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Old 10-26-2023, 04:17 AM
 
7,568 posts, read 4,112,150 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Yep, it was part of my job, and now I see it in my volunteer job as well. If it only impacted them, I wouldn't care; but it impacts others so I can't just ignore it.
I would be annoyed that others don't speak up for you to stop that nonsense.
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Old 10-26-2023, 11:18 AM
 
Location: Elsewhere
87,999 posts, read 83,827,560 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heavymind View Post
I fall into this group and am occasionally treated poorly by others because of it. I try to avoid getting into the details with people because I don't want to come across as a victim or give the impression that I want special treatment (because I don't).

"Could you at least try?" someone barked at me impatiently a few years back, regarding a task related to a project we were working on together. I said "no" and stated flat out that I was unable to do this thing, and the response I got was angry and accusatory, like I was being lazy or disobedient. I know my own limitations, nothing much to be done about that. Numbers, math, many options, if/or decisions...my brain can't process things like this and it's frustrating to have to deal with people who get angry about it. Count your blessings.

Would you go up to someone who's visibly mentally retarded/Down's Syndrome and get angry because they were unable to learn something? I sure hope not. Remember that not all disabilities are obvious or easily discerned.
It may (or may not) help to explain that you have a disability that prevents you from doing xyz and offer an explanation. Sometimes people need an education. Sometimes they won't be educated. But at least give them an opportunity.

I had a coworker who was dyslexic. Once we knew that, we understood why she took longer to do certain things. She was also proactive about it and asked others to check her work before it was finalized.

I know that years ago when people first talked about ADHD, I used to think, "Well, isn't the answer LEARN TO PAY ATTENTION?"

Now I know better that it isn't so simple.
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Old 10-26-2023, 01:28 PM
 
1,733 posts, read 779,233 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
It may (or may not) help to explain that you have a disability that prevents you from doing xyz and offer an explanation. Sometimes people need an education. Sometimes they won't be educated. But at least give them an opportunity.
I'm not sure what my disability is, and I otherwise look and speak normally. The few times I've told someone I have brain damage/neurological problems it makes the situation worse than it needs to be, I get weird reactions. So I usually stick with the old standby "I'm not good at math" and leave it at that. I don't have the energy to correct or 'educate' people.
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Old 10-26-2023, 05:49 PM
 
12,595 posts, read 8,820,605 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elyn02 View Post
I would be annoyed that others don't speak up for you to stop that nonsense.
Very annoying. Some years ago I was assigned as trainer for a couple new hires. At this point they had completed the formal training course and six months of OJT under a different trainer but had been unable to pass the certification test. The previous trainer had recommended they be cut from the program due to inability to learn the job, but management wanted to give them a second chance.

Every time I asked a question, they answered that no one had ever showed them that before, even though talking to the previous trainer and reviewing the checklist, it showed they had been trained AND initialed the training checklist that they understood that task. So each day I'd go through the steps with them several times all week. Then the next week when they came in, they couldn't do a single step and claimed I hadn't shown them the previous week. For six months this went on, until they again failed the eval and I recommended they be cut from the program.

But once again management put them back through with a third trainer. Lather, rinse, repeat. Finally, after almost two years of classroom and OJT, management acknowledged they couldn't pass the test and promoted them into staff positions. Created a lot of frustrated people.
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Old 10-27-2023, 05:39 AM
 
7,568 posts, read 4,112,150 times
Reputation: 6925
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Very annoying. Some years ago I was assigned as trainer for a couple new hires. At this point they had completed the formal training course and six months of OJT under a different trainer but had been unable to pass the certification test. The previous trainer had recommended they be cut from the program due to inability to learn the job, but management wanted to give them a second chance.

Every time I asked a question, they answered that no one had ever showed them that before, even though talking to the previous trainer and reviewing the checklist, it showed they had been trained AND initialed the training checklist that they understood that task. So each day I'd go through the steps with them several times all week. Then the next week when they came in, they couldn't do a single step and claimed I hadn't shown them the previous week. For six months this went on, until they again failed the eval and I recommended they be cut from the program.

But once again management put them back through with a third trainer. Lather, rinse, repeat. Finally, after almost two years of classroom and OJT, management acknowledged they couldn't pass the test and promoted them into staff positions. Created a lot of frustrated people.
Yup. Happens where I work as well.
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Old 10-27-2023, 08:26 AM
Status: "A solution in search of a problem" (set 11 days ago)
 
Location: New York Area
34,440 posts, read 16,527,546 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Very annoying. Some years ago I was assigned as trainer for a couple new hires. At this point they had completed the formal training course and six months of OJT under a different trainer but had been unable to pass the certification test. The previous trainer had recommended they be cut from the program due to inability to learn the job, but management wanted to give them a second chance.

Every time I asked a question, they answered that no one had ever showed them that before, even though talking to the previous trainer and reviewing the checklist, it showed they had been trained AND initialed the training checklist that they understood that task. So each day I'd go through the steps with them several times all week. Then the next week when they came in, they couldn't do a single step and claimed I hadn't shown them the previous week. For six months this went on, until they again failed the eval and I recommended they be cut from the program.

But once again management put them back through with a third trainer. Lather, rinse, repeat. Finally, after almost two years of classroom and OJT, management acknowledged they couldn't pass the test and promoted them into staff positions. Created a lot of frustrated people.
Terminating people has its own challenges and problems.
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Old 10-30-2023, 09:43 AM
 
1,082 posts, read 562,485 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bootsamillion View Post
Why do some people believe in BigFoot? Hundreds of years and no bones, no feces, no hides. Nothing to lay claim that a Bigfood exists. Yet people still send money to the Bigfoot hunters and go hunting for it themselves. Not one Bigfoot has ever been brought in. They supposedly live in family groups, even more reason to find some sort of remnant. Nothing. Ever.
Related to this, there's apparently a TV series where people go hunting for a treasure on some island. It's been on for at least a decade. No treasure has ever been found. What is the draw here for viewers? What could they possibly be doing in each episode that makes people think maybe *this* time they will find it?
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Old 10-30-2023, 12:15 PM
 
Location: So Cal
19,212 posts, read 15,083,434 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
Ha, I built a career on being able to speak to engineers and then translate their engineerese into English for the stakeholders and finance people. I managed a couple of very large, involved procurements before I retired, and I had to keep the various stakeholders from squabbling and posturing amongst themselves. I told my boss that the life experience that had best prepared me for the job was my stint as a Girl Scout leader when the girls were in the prepubescent stage.
Lol! (I've always respected you from reading your posts, but you've now reached a whole new level in my estimation. )
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Old 10-30-2023, 05:38 PM
 
Location: Elsewhere
87,999 posts, read 83,827,560 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaOfGrass View Post
Lol! (I've always respected you from reading your posts, but you've now reached a whole new level in my estimation. )
Thanks...I think!
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Old 10-30-2023, 07:27 PM
 
4,152 posts, read 4,391,967 times
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Well, I would say it is one of a few different things:
1) people don't know and don't want to show it by asking questions.
2) people are incompetent (perhaps even unteachable) but have been promoted to some level that requires them to interact on said project and they do not want to expose themselves so they gloss over the subject that would show their incompetence. Note, these people also tend to never communicate in writing or when they do, provide an "out" for themselves.
3) They have experienced some sort of trauma in the early life or work career where they are "gun shy" for whatever reason.
4) Have a mental issue or something else going on in their life distracting them.
5) Got promoted to positions above their aptitude
6) Have no desire to learn and prefer sameness in work environment

A few example to illustrate:
Early career in manufacturing environment I had a quasi quality control role to address bad production and monitor raw materials. The company had $500k to $2m machinery that would go down for extended periods due to $20 parts and they wouldn't establish a closed system to keep contaminants out of the raw materials.

So the top QC guy who only had 2 support staff to spot check output was constantly deeming a lot of output as non qualified. And a warehouse full of regrind materials of the defective component parts. The materials mixer (emotionally immature) got upset when confronted about errors. The warehouse manager whose responsibility was to insure the proper raw materials were 'staged" for the later shifts would screw up so much that we constantly had to break the warehouse lock with bolt cutter to then get the proper material in timely manner for later shifts. I quit after 3 months when the VP of operations wanted me to "create" audit documents for large companies we made component parts for (auto co / wheel chair manufacturer etc). They eventually went out of business.

In this company they let the lack of small maintenance expenditures (solenoids for the massive press, and proper material hopper lids for the raw material dispensers) contribute to a massive quality control problem.



Different environment: Retail Tech product training. This company's LOB did it the right way. We were encouraged to "be in the field/interact w end users". I had great experience at this company because they encouraged ALL employees to learn - we could go to the corporate "university" to get knowledgeable on any tech they were involved in if you worked near corp campus. When in office, as someone who spent time in field with consumers, resellers and end users, we were asked by IT to provide input on the website development and functionality. They had an extensive early customer acceptance testing (ECAT) of products.


Diff environment large financial org. Some IT initiative to get everyone on same system required my team to be asked about functionality of what was currently being done to be able to adapt it to the "new" system. I was never so PO'd when a week after switched to new system (of which we were not notified of transition date), non of the functionality we conveyed to them as being needed was available to us. One of my coworkers remarked, "I've never heard you so angry on the phone!".


The simplest explanation I can give is thoroughness. Some people in any environment are not thorough, they don't want to research or spend time learning how a system / process works. The problem I see most is they've absolved thinking/research strictly to the things they are comfortable with (or only asking the people they know and are agreeable with - one of the big problems with public survey techniques, but I digress) like internet and fail to round out the sourcing of other learning. They get a false expectation they can find anything they need typing at a keyboard. Most every work environment does not work that way.

Some people have been promoted (Peter Principle) to highest level of incompetence in a bureaucratic organization or possibility nepotistic organization. One sibling in a finance role at a major corporation would share the vagaries of one of her remote corporate bosses emails. This guy was master of not answering and constantly deflecting and deferring. We surmised he was a buddy to someone in C suite. The emails were hilarious in their ability to not respond (much like a politician) and absolve himself of any responsibility.

To build upon Mightyqueen and tnff's comments, if you are around long enough in an organization you realize how it is much like high school. Group projects where not everyone does their job nor contributes, petty political positioning, popularity being weighed more than ability to get job done, et al.


A lot of companies overlook the valuable employees that are cross disciplinary competent. They can put them in various functions as needed. A baseball sports analogy to illustrate - it is like having multiple competent utility players versus, say, only one position players.

Last edited by ciceropolo; 10-30-2023 at 07:35 PM.. Reason: additional content
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