Charlotte County Foreclosure (Sarasota, Port Charlotte, Englewood: bank owned, for sale, real estate)

[justNancy]

I have a question about a Freddie Mac property I saw today and am making an offer on tomorrow. I would have done it today, but I needed to get Proof of Funds and I don't walk around with a bank statement.

The listing price is a lot lower than the assessed value on the county web site, which is very unusual. Most of the time the appraisal is considerably lower than the price, which we've discussed on this forum.

I noticed that the county shows that the house has an inground, gunite pool. There is no pool. It looks as if there could have been a pool at one time and it was filled in, which is strange, but there is definitely no swimming pool.

Question 1: Will an inground pool have an effect on the appraised value? If so, then I have to assume taxes are higher too. I suppose if I end up buying the house, I'll have to request a reappraisal by Charlotte County. I get very confused about the property taxes here. At closing, if it's April 30, for example, does that mean the seller pays me for 4 months in 2011, since the Nov 2011 tax bill will be for the calendar year 2011?

Question 2: If you're familiar with PC, the area is between Ackerman/O'Hara and surrounded by more expensive waterfront homes. However, the house I'm considering is next to a vacant lot that hasn't been cared for in a while. From what I understand, in an area with no deed restrictions, the county does not fine the lot owner for not mowing the grass. Is this a county or city ordinance? When does the condition of the lot become a legal matter? Any feedback on this matter would be appreciated.

Question 3: This is the most important issue for me. My agent told me the list price is very low and often lenders will list a home this way to get multiple offers. This is a new listing, 4 days old, and I'm an owner-occupant. There have been no other offers made (yet) so how low can I go? He said buyers often offer more than the list price. I did the math and the house is a 3/2/2 with a tiled lanai priced under $50 a sf and is in good condition. The only negative thing is the lot next door, but it's a really pretty house.

I also thought $1,000 was a reasonable earnest money deposit, but he said the higher the better, minimum of 5%. Your thoughts?

[Big House]

Nancy,
I'll try to answer some things, and other will probably chime in and give you answers to some of the things I can't, or don't have what I consider a good answer for you.

Good Luck by the way!!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by justNancy

I have a question about a Freddie Mac property I saw today and am making an offer on tomorrow. I would have done it today, but I needed to get Proof of Funds and I don't walk around with a bank statement.
A lot of times you can get one on-line and cross out all the account numbers and other irrelevant information they don't need.

The listing price is a lot lower than the assessed value on the county web site, which is very unusual. Most of the time the appraisal is considerably lower than the price, which we've discussed on this forum.

Banks have been undercutting each other and they are their own worst enemey sometimes. And, yes they have a strategy of putting in low numbers with a policy that they won't even look at the offers for 10-15 days no matter what your expiration date is on the offer - they don't care, and know if you are offering you'll wait.

I noticed that the county shows that the house has an inground, gunite pool. There is no pool. It looks as if there could have been a pool at one time and it was filled in, which is strange, but there is definitely no swimming pool.

That is unsual. Normally the records are better than that - it raises a red flag to me.

Question 1: Will an inground pool have an effect on the appraised value? If so, then I have to assume taxes are higher too. I suppose if I end up buying the house, I'll have to request a reappraisal by Charlotte County. I get very confused about the property taxes here. At closing, if it's April 30, for example, does that mean the seller pays me for 4 months in 2011, since the Nov 2011 tax bill will be for the calendar year 2011?

Yes, and inground pool will have an effect on the appraised and accessed value - two different terms. Yes, the current owners/ bank will have to pay off their portion of the year in taxes. That will all be explained to you by the title company and be shown in the HUD closing documents that they prepare.

Question 2: If you're familiar with PC, the area is between Ackerman/O'Hara and surrounded by more expensive waterfront homes. However, the house I'm considering is next to a vacant lot that hasn't been cared for in a while. From what I understand, in an area with no deed restrictions, the county does not fine the lot owner for not mowing the grass. Is this a county or city ordinance? When does the condition of the lot become a legal matter? Any feedback on this matter would be appreciated.

I am familiar with PC but not that much about the area you are describing. I don't think it will ever be an issue if they have not ordainance about it. You can call the county code enforcement office as a place to start. But, as long as they pay their taxes on time, AND there is not enforceable rights to make them mow, then you can't do much except enjoy the natural habitat. I wish I had more for you on that.

Question 3: This is the most important issue for me. My agent told me the list price is very low and often lenders will list a home this way to get multiple offers. This is a new listing, 4 days old, and I'm an owner-occupant. There have been no other offers made (yet) so how low can I go? He said buyers often offer more than the list price. I did the math and the house is a 3/2/2 with a tiled lanai priced under $50 a sf and is in good condition. The only negative thing is the lot next door, but it's a really pretty house.

Yes, as I mentioned before banks are cutting each others numbers and are looking to get multiple offers. So consider this carefully and see if they do. Normally a financed deal with a 1000 deposit is OK, but if the price is low, expect they may get a full price or better offer, cash deal and a big deposit. The deposit comes out of the price, but it shows earnestness on the buyers side which the banks like ((strategy)). If you are financing the deal, it may not be an option, but if you are paying cash - definitely consider a bigger deposit, and a short window for inspection and closing. Waiting till April 30th tells me that you are financing it, which is less exciting to the selling bank - but may not be a bad thing depending on your offer and deposit.

I also thought $1,000 was a reasonable earnest money deposit, but he said the higher the better, minimum of 5%. Your thoughts?

The deposit really isn't much at risk, since you have a right to inspect ((just make sure you do it on time)), and if you find virtually anything you don't like they will return your deposit and let you out of the contract.

I hope this helps - I know you probably have been well advised already.

Again - GOOOOOD LUCK!!

[SoFLGal]

Originally Posted by justNancy

I have a question about a Freddie Mac property I saw today and am making an offer on tomorrow. I would have done it today, but I needed to get Proof of Funds and I don't walk around with a bank statement.

The listing price is a lot lower than the assessed value on the county web site, which is very unusual. Most of the time the appraisal is considerably lower than the price, which we've discussed on this forum.

I noticed that the county shows that the house has an inground, gunite pool. There is no pool. It looks as if there could have been a pool at one time and it was filled in, which is strange, but there is definitely no swimming pool.

Question 1: Will an in ground pool have an effect on the appraised value? If so, then I have to assume taxes are higher too. I suppose if I end up buying the house, I'll have to request a reappraisal by Charlotte County. I get very confused about the property taxes here. At closing, if it's April 30, for example, does that mean the seller pays me for 4 months in 2011, since the Nov 2011 tax bill will be for the calendar year 2011?

Question 2: If you're familiar with PC, the area is between Ackerman/O'Hara and surrounded by more expensive waterfront homes. However, the house I'm considering is next to a vacant lot that hasn't been cared for in a while. From what I understand, in an area with no deed restrictions, the county does not fine the lot owner for not mowing the grass. Is this a county or city ordinance? When does the condition of the lot become a legal matter? Any feedback on this matter would be appreciated.

Question 3: This is the most important issue for me. My agent told me the list price is very low and often lenders will list a home this way to get multiple offers. This is a new listing, 4 days old, and I'm an owner-occupant. There have been no other offers made (yet) so how low can I go? He said buyers often offer more than the list price. I did the math and the house is a 3/2/2 with a tiled lanai priced under $50 a sf and is in good condition. The only negative thing is the lot next door, but it's a really pretty house.

I also thought $1,000 was a reasonable earnest money deposit, but he said the higher the better, minimum of 5%. Your thoughts?

Question 1:
Yes, if the pool has been covered up then the assessed value would be lower and you'd have to go to property appraiser and ask for a re-appraisal.

Yes, they will pay you for the first four months of April and then you would be responsible for paying the entire bill in the fall. However, the bill comes out in Nov but is not delinquent/finally due until March 31st 2011. You just get a discount if you pay early. If you are getting a loan you will probably have to pay a years worth of insurance in advance and then escrow three additional months.

Question 2:
As long as the lot is undeveloped then it does not need to be mowed. Port Charlotte is not a city so it would be a county issue. You might want to talk to code enforcement but I doubt they would do anything.

Question 3: $50 per sq ft sounds like a decent deal to me. This is a pretty easy question. Have your agent run comparable sold properties. Then you'll know what kind of deal you're getting. Here's the formula I use when pulling comps for banks or clients--
1 mile radius from the property
5 years on either side of year built
20% on either side of under air square footage
The 3 best sold properties in the last 3 months (some banks will accept 6 months if there are no recent comps).

On the deposit money, $1000 is pretty standard in the lower price properties. Your agent was right on this, the more the deposit the stronger it will make your offer look.

The points that are most important to banks are:
Purchase price
Cash or financing
Deposit money
Inspection time frame
Closing date-2 weeks for cash, 30 days for financing and 45 days for FHA, is pretty standard.
Most banks will pay title

[coastal chic]

I haven't explored that area specifically, but after looking on Zillow, the prices for "recently solds" and "for sales" in that area are all over the place. I have found with most bank-owned props, they are usually priced under appraised value, so I'm confused about your statement there. I would expect it to be priced under.

The pool thing is strange. Unless it's been filled in the last 12 months, the appraisal should be accurate. However, the pool will only add a small amount to the appraisal (an avg new pool costs around $30k, of which only half is normally recouped.) So, if the pool was old, then the additional value would be fairly insignificant.

About the vacant lot, even in non-deed-restricted communities, if a lot was cleared and maintained in the past, then the owner is required to continue to maintain it. You can call code enforcement to find out and they will send the owner a nasty-gram if that's the case. However, it is has always been kept "au naturel" there's nothing you can do about it.

In this market...if the house is priced right (and it sounds like it is) it will probably get multiple offers, so make sure yours is as solid as you feel comfortable with. Cash is king. There are lots of investors out there with cash in hand just looking for deals like this. If one comes in at the same price as your offer, and they have cash and you're financing, you just lost.

Good luck! Keep us updated.

[justNancy]

Thanks so much to both of you for your replies.

Yes, I know I can get a statement online. I am currently renting a home without a secure internet connection, however. I suppose I can print a statement when I'm in the real estate office or go to the Englewood library. I printed a couple of 1099 forms there, but I'm really not comfortable doing it. I've been banking online for over a decade, but I feel uneasy using public computers or unsecured wireless connections, although I realize the bank sites are heavily encrypted. I also used this excuse so I could go home and think about it before making a commitment. (I'm nervous)

No, I am not financing. I only used April 30 as an example. I am paying cash for the house. I am also going to ask if the vacant lot next door is for sale. I saw a neighbor walking her dog and he stopped to do his business, so I'm guessing it's a popular spot for dog poop. Funny, right now I'm renting a small mobile home in VHL and it's very clean and quiet. People here are very friendly and the clubhouse is always busy with activities. The 2 pools are immaculate and one is heated all the time. I would never have to worry about barking dogs or poop on the lawn since people here follow the rules. However, I just can't see spending $85,000 for a doublewide trailer when CBS homes with garages and fenced yards are selling for under $100,000. I guess it depends on the lifestyle you desire.

RE: Deposit. Okay, but I read that an earnest money deposit should be "what you can afford to lose." That was on another site, so maybe the advice was misguided.

I guess I should have more confidence in my real estate agent since I've known him for over a year. Sometimes I think he wishes I'd move to another state.

[justNancy]

I am so sorry. I didn't see your post before. For some reason I scrolled past it.

Originally Posted by SoFLGal

Question 1:
Yes, if the pool has been covered up then the assessed value would be lower and you'd have to go to property appraiser and ask for a re-appraisal.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by SoFLGal

Yes, they will pay you for the first four months of April and then you would be responsible for paying the entire bill in the fall. However, the bill comes out in Nov but is not delinquent/finally due until March 31st 2011. You just get a discount if you pay early. If you are getting a loan you will probably have to pay a years worth of insurance in advance and then escrow three additional months.

If I pay cash, are most property insurance premiums paid monthly? You just reminded me of the last time I bought a home. I did pay in advance for insurance. (I forgot!) It was a long time ago, but IIRC I paid for 2 years in advance, but I financed 80%.

Originally Posted by SoFLGal

As long as the lot is undeveloped then it does not need to be mowed. Port Charlotte is not a city so it would be a county issue. You might want to talk to code enforcement but I doubt they would do anything.

I know I always make excuses, but I'm thinking about it tonight and it's a real eyesore, although it's a pretty street. At least it should start to turn green in the summer!

Originally Posted by SoFLGal

$50 per sq ft sounds like a decent deal to me.

Yes, especially since the carpet is new and the tile is in excellent condition. I think it's new too.

Originally Posted by SoFLGal

This is a pretty easy question. Have your agent run comparable sold properties. Then you'll know what kind of deal you're getting.

I asked him for a few comps, but he probably got busy. I've done this myself in the past, but of course I don't have all the professional tools.

Originally Posted by SoFLGal

On the deposit money, $1000 is pretty standard in the lower price properties. Your agent was right on this, the more the deposit the stronger it will make your offer look.

Oh, I was going to make the deposit after they accepted my offer, but before the inspection. That's what I've done in the past. He will write into the offer that I'll make an earnest money deposit of $5,000 within 24 hours after acceptance. Are you saying they're more likely to accept if a deposit is made with the offer?

Well, I guess I'll review all of these things tomorrow. Thanks again.

[justNancy]

Originally Posted by coastal chic

I haven't explored that area specifically, but after looking on Zillow, the prices for "recently solds" and "for sales" in that area are all over the place. I have found with most bank-owned props, they are usually priced under appraised value, so I'm confused about your statement there. I would expect it to be priced under.

I've written too much already (but it's my thread. ) However, I want to mention that this is the first bank owned house I've really considered, so maybe that's why I questioned the county records. To me, having a higher value makes sense, but when I look on the Sarasota or Charlotte County sites, I usually find that the listing price is much higher than the values shown. For example, last April I made an offer of $110,000 on a home that was listed for $129,000. Charlotte County showed a value of only $71,000, but I liked the area a lot and, at that time, qualified for a 10% tax credit. The seller countered with $123,000. This happened again a few months ago with a small home that was appraised for only $43,000 and I offered $70,000 because it had been nicely remodeled. The owner wouldn't take less than $85,000. However, these were not bank owned homes.

Big House, like you, the missing pool bothers me. The county shows under Land Improvements a 1992 swimming pool, gunite, screen alum, 3 walls, 8 ft, and coated concrete. Since the last sale was in 2005, perhaps there was a lot of damage during Charley, but usually only the screen is replaced. I've never heard of someone purchasing a pool home in Florida and filling it..except with water! I found several Google links on this subject, so I guess removing an inground pool or filling it isn't as unusual as I thought, but I'd like to make sure everything was done correctly by a licensed contractor with the proper permits.

Anyway, I am sorry I bothered everyone, because I need some more answers from my agent.

[Harbor Hopper]

The pool being filled in should not be too alarming. It does happen. Since it is bank owned, they may have had it filled in for insurance/liability purposes (especially if it was damaged beyond repair). Hopefully the bank isn't advertising it as a pool home!
If you buy it, you just need to let the county know that there is no pool so they can take it off the record (less taxable value).
Pay no attention to the assessed value. It means nothing in regards to actual value of the property. We are very lucky that Charlotte Co has adjusted our property taxes according to the market (often times much below actual value). Our house is assessed about 20% below recent appraised value, which only means lower taxes for us!! Lower assessed value is good for your wallet :-)

[daFrogMan]

Nancy, if you check out this website Record Search? and do a search for this prop, there are options to view the property for past years. This way you can see how much damage was done after Charley and see if it had the 'blue' roof.
Good luck!

[mrs.cool]

If Charlotte County sends out nasty-grams for an un-mowed lot, they haven't found us yet!!