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Old 09-25-2013, 07:02 AM
 
4,538 posts, read 6,418,433 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JERSEY MAN View Post
I'm not missing a thing. I was NOT REQUIRED to have flood insurance either. I bought it as a safety net for myself and family for security. I'm surrounded by people that did not buy it(to save money) and were given checks by fema within 2 weeks. Most said they had minimal damage or none but when they found out FEMA had an open checkbook they claimed just about everything was flooded. Myself who had flood insurance for over a decade am still in litigation with my ins. com. and I used retirement savings for repair.

How did you know you needed it?

I bought a house that was 60 years old. Never had a drop of water. I am two miles from the beach. I was never required to have flood insurance. Heck the thought never crossed my mind. I paid off mortgage in 2008 when rates started falling and my loan amount was small enough it did not make sense to refinance.

When Irene hit in 2011, my house did not get one drop of water. Bone dry. I have a split so lower level is two feet below ground and still not a drop. Since basements are not really covered by flood anyhow it is only the upper level that flood would really cover and that if four feet up.

Sandy threw six feet at my house. Heck house a few doors down was built in 1923 and never had a drop of water not one drop and had no flood insurance and sandy totaled it. Who knew.

I know now. But remember, I am not in a barrier island or near the beach. The old neighbor across street bought home brand new in 1954 for 14k. She was not too upset after Sandy. She was like what am I supposed to make 58 years worth of insurance payments for a flood payout?

Trouble is with BW act I would say 10 years from now the majority of folks wont have flood insurance in my town. If my policy rose past $3.600 I would just drop even though I have no chance of ever getting a payout again. I rather put $300 a month in my brokerage account

Trouble is BW is forcing tons of folks off flood insurance in next few years. Down in Long Beach NY and Island Park NY I tons of folks are buying bungalows for cash between 90k and 190K, doing cheap fixes and converting to rentals and not buying flood insurance as the costs are way too high. Come winter they pack them in with off season winter tenants or full time section 8 folks. What happens when six feet of water comes rolling in again and those apts are jam packed with illegals and young 20s somethings who are sitting ducks. It will be a big nightmare and redcross and catholic charities will have to go and help.

The landlords will just throw tenants stuff to street, spray cheap fixes and shove new folks in again. Creating a big slum.
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Old 09-25-2013, 09:28 PM
 
Location: New Jersey/Florida
5,816 posts, read 12,586,915 times
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Sandy Jet said"People with flood insurance forget it is not risk based it is a loss to uncle sam that is why rates are going up".
I'm not going to derail this thread anymore. If you think that this is the only reason that rates are going up I have a bridge for sale. I don't want to be cruel but people that had insurance should be paid first. Not to have to be in litigation for almost a year and beyond. The people that roled the dice and had no insurance should not be compensated at all. Why should people buy flood insurance if FEMA responds within weeks and cuts checks immediately to the uninsured and people with insurance for decades had to wait for months for an adjuster to even come out and look at the house. Now you want more free money from the govt. and complain about ALL the forms you have to complete. If I knew the govt. would run to the unisured first WHY would I have bought insurance. Now back to the OP. Beware of the new laws, it's not going to be fun.
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Old 09-26-2013, 04:57 AM
 
Location: SW Florida
14,866 posts, read 12,004,580 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JERSEY MAN View Post
Sandy Jet said"People with flood insurance forget it is not risk based it is a loss to uncle sam that is why rates are going up".
I'm not going to derail this thread anymore. If you think that this is the only reason that rates are going up I have a bridge for sale. I don't want to be cruel but people that had insurance should be paid first. Not to have to be in litigation for almost a year and beyond. The people that roled the dice and had no insurance should not be compensated at all. Why should people buy flood insurance if FEMA responds within weeks and cuts checks immediately to the uninsured and people with insurance for decades had to wait for months for an adjuster to even come out and look at the house. Now you want more free money from the govt. and complain about ALL the forms you have to complete. If I knew the govt. would run to the unisured first WHY would I have bought insurance. Now back to the OP. Beware of the new laws, it's not going to be fun.
I agree, and sorry you're having to fight to get what you've paid for in the way of flood insurance. I find it especially insulting if FEMA's is either stalling on or denying flooding claims to those who've paid for those policies, yet giving the money readily to others who never paid one dime for that insurance. If this is true IMO it's just more evidence that FEMA sees its flood insurance policyholders as cash cows to be milked dry when it needs more cash.

We had flood insurance for the 28 years we owned our last house in Miami, we never had any issues with floods, were in a 100 year flood plain that they declared in 1985, the year we bought the house- never had any flood problems even with the number of hurricanes and tropical storms that came our way ( including Andrew that virtually destroyed the house in 1992). The coverage under the flood policy was not extensive, did not cover replacement costs of rebuilding, or the replacement costs of the contents, or even loss of use coverage, yet we saw the rates rise every year until the last year- 2012- the cost was $1200 annually, to be added to the $4000 we were paying for a separate windstorm policy, and $2400 to State Farm for the rest of the coverage under homeowner's insurance. We paid so much for the windstorm, they told us, because we shouldn't expect others to support our risk for windstorm damage, yet I figure we were expected to subsidize those FEMA claims and who knows what else by paying for our flood insurance.

Our situation has changed, we sold that house, built our retirement house and we have no debt on this house. So there's no mortgage holder requiring that we insure the house. We have homeowner's insurance, but have not purchased flood insurance for this house. We debate about doing so as part of the house is located on the portion of the property designated as another 100 year flood plain, and it's located on a tidal canal, although the house isn't close to the canal. I'm watching to see what happens, and thinking that we will contact our insurance agent to see what flood insurance might cost us. Hearing your story and others' problems, and seeing that flood insurance is administered by the self-same inefficient and corrupt federal government we all know and love( @@), I'm not sure we care to get in that game again. We can bank the money we'd pay for premiums, and ensure it'd be there if we needed it for repairs. I don't think I'd apply for any FEMA aid in the event that we had a catastrophic flood either, especially not with the strings that seem to be attached to doing so.
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Old 09-26-2013, 09:18 AM
 
4,538 posts, read 6,418,433 times
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Everyone people with flood insurance or without insurance on a primary residence is entitled for certain things to get up to $31,900 from Fema.

FEMA is for homes like mine build in 1955 is paid for 2/3rds by tax payers. Only 1/3 by rate payers. I am pre-firm in a PRP zone. Not a single person I know ever took out a flood insurance policy on their own. When town was mapped into a flood zone everyone with a mortgage was forced to get it. Heck a lot of them sued over it. Yet they had it.

I pay estimated taxes all the time. My $31,900 FEMA payment was a bit of a funny thing as a few weeks later I paid $32,000 in federal taxes on a quarterly estimated tax payment.

So fema refunded me three months of federal income tax big deal.

As soon as I get to full rate I plan on doing start stop flood insurance. Start it every July and stop it every November.
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Old 09-26-2013, 10:13 AM
 
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BTW Flood Insurance is going way way way up on October 1st. In just five days. Pretty much if you dont have flood insurance now you have till Monday to decide if you want to roll the dice or pay up.

After October 1st, the decision is made for you. You will be paying such sky high rates to start and taking out a policy right after hurricane season it make no sense.

Lot of rate increases will have a five year phase in period til you get to full rate depending on your situation.

For instance some have a 20% rate increase til you get to full rate. So buy it today and it is around five years before you reach the rate you will pay if you took the policy on October 1st.

Anyone without flood should do research now, talk to an agent, talk to NFIP/FEMA etc. Figure out your BFE, figure out your elevation etc. Some folks buying before 10-1-2013 might not help much.

But folks who own a home that is pre-firm (pre-flood mapping) and is a primary residence grandfathering ends 9-30-2013. A policy that is taken out 10-1-2013 is full risk rate.

Taking policy out now gives you breathing room.

Example I got a full flood policy for $420 bucks as I am in a PRP zone. Pref rate zone. Starting 10-1-2013 that is getting phases out. I was tole my rates will rise 20% a year till I am at full rate.

My full rate is $3,600 as of today. Who knows down the road. So basically I have a five year run way before I am priced out of flood again.
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Old 09-26-2013, 10:31 AM
 
Location: SW Florida
14,866 posts, read 12,004,580 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SandyJet View Post
Everyone people with flood insurance or without insurance on a primary residence is entitled for certain things to get up to $31,900 from Fema.

FEMA is for homes like mine build in 1955 is paid for 2/3rds by tax payers. Only 1/3 by rate payers. I am pre-firm in a PRP zone. Not a single person I know ever took out a flood insurance policy on their own. When town was mapped into a flood zone everyone with a mortgage was forced to get it. Heck a lot of them sued over it. Yet they had it.

I pay estimated taxes all the time. My $31,900 FEMA payment was a bit of a funny thing as a few weeks later I paid $32,000 in federal taxes on a quarterly estimated tax payment.

So fema refunded me three months of federal income tax big deal.

As soon as I get to full rate I plan on doing start stop flood insurance. Start it every July and stop it every November.
Well,the thing is that it's FEMA that determines whether folks actually get any financial help from them, and you may or may not know, that help can range from an outright grant of any amount, to loans at the going interest rates. I recall my mother attempted to get some help from FEMA after hurricane Andrew destroyed her trailer, but all they offered her was a loan for an 8% rate of interest- that interest was higher than she could have gotten at a bank at the time. We also realized, in the aftermath of those hurricanes, that it seems that FEMA, like other government agencies, tends to react to political atmosphere going at the time, and we discovered that FEMA gave out blank checks, or so it seemed to those folks who were the most visible on the news media, or vocal, or in post-disaster areas of high media visibility, even when in some cases their claims of loss were made on properties they didn't even own! This was discovered after the fact when FEMA gave out money to folks in Homestead, FL after Hurricane Wilma, which didn't do much damage in Homestead.. Thing is, it seems that often after disasters, FEMA gives out money first without verifying the information or asking questions, and later when it comes to light that some folks really were not entitled to that money ( by virtue of not owning the property they're making claims for, claiming ownership on an already derelict property and claiming damage is from the storm, or falsifying the extent of their losses) the money is gone.

Then FEMA toughens up later and denies help to folks who need it, so even if they say you might be entitled to a specific amount, there is no guarantee you'll get it. And I honestly don't know where folks who have flood insurance claims fall within this scenario, but it sounds as though they have to fight for their money,when in reality they should be paid before any grants are given out, if there's a question of enough money to pay everyone.

Believe me, I understand your predicament and in your situation I would have taken that money too. I'm not sure if that $31,000 was really enough to make you whole again, and what do you do if it isn't when your homeowner's insurance doesn't cover your damages? And in your boat I most likely wouldn't have carried flood insurance either. I don't know what your rates would have been had you carried it, rates are also determined by your community's participation in the program, which involves their setting in place items and plans which mitigate flood damage in the event of a catastrophic event. It's likely your community didn't, if not probably because what happened to you folks up there along the NE coast doesn't come along very often and it had been a long time since you had that type of windstorm and flooding as happened with TS Sandy- unfortunately it seems people forget and need some type of wakeup call to be prepared for such things, human nature I guess.

And I certainly can't begrudge money given out to folks who have been hurt by natural disasters beyond their control, who plan to use that money for rebuilding and getting back on their feet ( not taking expensive trips, buying cars, clothing and designer sneakers with that money as some of the folks in our neck of the woods did with their phony FEMA claims) IMO providing that help to individuals who need it, who don't have enough money to rebuild, and to communities to rebuild their infrastructure is a good use of taxpayer money.

I just think that FEMA ought to 1) carefully review who it's giving money to after disasters and be a little more discriminating to ensure the claims are valid, 2) if they're in the insurance business, taking premiums from flood insurance policyholders, ensure that claims are paid timely and in their entirety- this ought to be a priority, although I'm still of the opinion that FEMA looks at those policyholders as cash cows and they throw those policyholders into the same pot as everyone else who's expecting FEMA money.

I don't know if you read the Biggert-Waters Act, but there are provisions in the Act that allow for penalties in the way of surcharges for reinstating flood insurance after it's elapsed, or as they stated, surcharges for delays in signing up for flood insurance after they were first required to have it. Similar, I guess,to the surcharges on the premiums for Medicare Part B, or Part D when one delays signing up for that after enrolling in Part A. I can understand why you'd want to un-enroll in flood insurance during the times when you don't expect flooding, but I'd bet FEMA would see that as allowing the policy to lapse at those times and would charge you even more when you re-enroll...
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Old 09-26-2013, 10:43 AM
 
4,538 posts, read 6,418,433 times
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BW act clearly states if I stop my flood insurance when I have subsidized flood insurance I will at best get hit with big penalties or lose my subsidy all together.

BW for some reason states any house that is pre-flood maps (pre-firm) that is a primary residence can continue with the subsidized rate until home changes hands, is declared damaged more than 50% or has two or three claims even if for smaller amounts and they call it a repetitive flood house even if claims total way under 50%

BW also has big penalties for banks or and people with mortgages who dont maintain flood year round.

From what I read if I own my home outright and are paying sky high full risk rates I can stop and start it for now.
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Old 09-26-2013, 10:54 AM
 
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BTW anytime you do insurance claims it pretty much works out 1/3 got over paid, 1/3 got paid right and 1/3 got underpaid. You mainly hear from the 1/3 underpaid.

Two folks near me with flood insurance got a big windfall and one paid off mortgage and other paid for kids college.

Both folks do home improvements and have tons of folks they do business with. Guy across street he and two sons renovated whole house. He has an LLC home improvement business and submitted his receipts and showed proof work was done and got paid like 135k He got paid the same as any contractor except his 14 and 15 year old kids got plumber and electrician rates.

FEMA as well as RED Cross it is hard to give out aid. Remember flood insurance does not care how rich or poor you are. Charities based aid on 2012 AGI on tax return, not assets.

Lets say you earn 200K a year have six kids, three leased cars and three kids in college, big mortgage and property tax that is sky high. According to many sandy charities you are rich!!!!!!

Retired guy next door with five million in muni bonds living off tax free interest and no mortgage guess what he is poor, his AGI is very low. WINNER WINNER Chicken Diner.

Then there are folks really screwed, older middle aged couple near me lived in the home the wifes Dad built himself like 60 years ago. She grew up there, her Mom is older and lives in a senior citzen apt.

The owner the old lady, had no mortgage and no flood, the daughter wife who lived there almost 60 years tried to file a fema claim and they told her since her name is not on deed it is not a primary residence and she is entitled to zero.
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Old 09-26-2013, 11:02 AM
 
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Figured I share this to show it is not the uninsured folks getting a pay out that is bulk of Issue.

Long Beach NY got hit pretty hard with Sandy. It is also a town that does not save for rainy days nor have flood insurance on most public buildings. Since Sandy here is how much Long Beach received for public buildings not covered by flood insurance

2/25/2013

LONG BEACH CITY SCHOOLS
Public Buildings
$3,813,078.83

2/28/2013
LONG BEACH MEDICAL CENTER
Public Buildings
$102,311.25

3/14/2013
LONG BEACH
Public Utilities
$271,782.25

3/27/2013
LONG BEACH MEDICAL CENTER
Protective Measures
$497,946.74

5/20/2013
LONG BEACH MEDICAL CENTER
Protective Measures
$214,503.75

6/13/2013
LONG BEACH CITY SCHOOLS
Recreational or Other
$298,400.40

6/19/2013
LONG BEACH PUBLIC LIBRARY
Debris Removal
$10,443.67

6/25/2013
LONG BEACH PUBLIC LIBRARY
Protective Measures
$1,588.50

7/29/2013
LONG BEACH
Protective Measures
$54,603.63

7/31/2013
MESIVTA OF LONG BEACH
Protective Measures
$155,137.28

LONG BEACH CITY SCHOOLS
Public Buildings
$3,421,719.15

LONG BEACH
Protective Measures
$58,632.49

LONG BEACH MEDICAL CENTER
Protective Measures
$4,889,079.82

LONG BEACH MEDICAL CENTER
Public Buildings
$1,600,462.36

8/9/2013
LONG BEACH
Debris Removal
$10,694.57

8/23/2013
LONG BEACH CITY SCHOOLS
Recreational or Other
$91,442.70

LONG BEACH CITY SCHOOLS
Public Buildings
$444,333.78

8/29/2013
LONG BEACH CITY SCHOOLS
$959,418.57

LONG BEACH
Public Buildings
$26,186.23

8/30/2013
LONG BEACH CITY SCHOOLS
Public Buildings
$86,749.09

Grand Total: $17,008,515.06
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Old 09-26-2013, 11:06 AM
 
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BTW that long beach list is only from Feb. FEMA never released spending information between nov and jan when they got bulk of payment.

LB also got an additional 25 million a few weeks ago for other stuff.

LB is also spending 44 millions on their board walk rebuild from Sandy money.

I would guess the town of Long Beach itself got 100 million and that is just one town.
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