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Unread 10-18-2010, 03:39 AM
 
121 posts, read 155,672 times
Reputation: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickAbdella View Post
I hate to be on the negative side but what has been suggested by some where you can advertise it as a 4 bedroom even though the septic only supports 3 bedrooms is not allowed. This is a quote from the MLS compliance department - I'm sorry for the length but I can't post a link because to get to it would require a login.

"(g) The number of bedrooms in a property listing shall not exceed the occupancy level imposed by an onsite sewage system improvement permit.

Until now TMLS did not have a rule governing this issue. There are a number of listings in the MLS that reflect more bedrooms than the number allowed by the onsite sewage system improvement permit for the residence. Under this new rule, these listings are now in violation and must be corrected.

This rule change was prompted by four factors:
1. North Carolina state regulation prohibits the advertising of a residence as having more bedrooms than allowed per an onsite sewage system improvement permit."

Please read #1. It did not used to be that big of a deal but it certainly is now as evidenced by your perception of the permit department.

I also am of the opinion that while you may not lose money selling a 3 bedroom versus a 4 bedroom, the buyer pool will be smaller. A four bedroom home will appear in the search results of people looking for at least 3 bedrooms but a 3 bedroom home will not come up in the search results of people looking for at least 4 bedrooms this decreases your potential pool of buyers.
Thanks for pointing that out. I did some more research and found the info below on the NC Real Estate Commission website:

"The position of the Commission has long been that the real estate broker or salesman who holds himself out as possessing special skills, understanding, and information with respect to real estate should be informed about any use restrictions on particular lands with which he is dealing. Thus, a licensee who advertises that a property "sleeps 16" should be certain that any on-site sewage system is in fact designed to serve at least sixteen people. Similarly, a licensee who advertises a property for sale as having a certain number of bed rooms should be sure that any on-site sewage system is permitted to handle that number of bedrooms.

CAVEAT: The Real Estate License Law prohibits misrepresentation, omission or concealment of material fact; a course of misrepresentation through false advertising; and improper, dishonest and fraudulent conduct. Intentional or negligent misrepresentation of the occupancy design limits of a property served by an on-site sewage disposal system violates the License Law and may result in disciplinary action against the licensee."

(Colors, bolding, and underlining are mine)
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Unread 10-18-2010, 05:56 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
997 posts, read 3,119,384 times
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You are asking a tough a question here. You, the buyer, has to be the one satisfied with the outcome. To poll the public on what they think won't work. It depends so much on what the market is when you sell, what that current buyer is looking for at that time (maybe they don't care about having 4 bedroom, maybe they care about the yard moreso also), maybe laws will have also changed; You just don't know. It sounds like you really like the home and the yard as it stands today. Trying to predict the future outcome is unlikely. You have only 2 options. Accept the home as it is and take the compensation to rectify it, or move on. I think you have already made your decision. Hope it works for you.
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Unread 10-18-2010, 06:07 AM
 
Location: Raleigh
769 posts, read 1,372,219 times
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If the drain field is in fact too small to accommodate 4 bedrooms worth of people you are going to have problems bigger ( and wetter) that worrying about resale values. Get some escrow from the sellers and get the field fixed to take care of it.
"pool of ideas"
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Unread 10-18-2010, 08:19 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
9,903 posts, read 15,630,268 times
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I had a client who built a 5 bedroom home in the Wake Forest area. We used a very well known custom builder in this area. He told us that lots in this area will NOT perk for a 5 bedroom home and therefore, even though the home has 5 bedrooms, the town inspector will call it a 4 bedroom with a bonus room. The home already had one bonus room but the builder said it didn't matter as the town inspectors in this area understood that. He said MOST LOTS will only perk for a 3 bedroom. He said it has nothing to do with the lines but the absorption of the land.

I am NOT an expert on septics and leach fields so I am going on what he said. I've asked other builders about this and they tell me that what he told us is accurate. I've also asked the guy I used for inspecting septics and he said the same thing. My client did additional research and was fine with this. He is an attorney and believe me, he did his research! So, it was ok with him.

So, my question about adding another line is...does that make the land "perk"?

And...if the home perks for a 3 bedroom but you really have 4 bedrooms, wouldn't you just have the septic cleaned out more often? And if you have more boys than girls, does that make a difference???

So, is it a big deal or is it a big deal because we don't understand what having a permit for a 3 bedroom versus a 4 bedroom, really means?

Vicki
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Unread 10-18-2010, 08:29 AM
 
2,043 posts, read 3,370,613 times
Reputation: 1230
Quote:
Originally Posted by VickiR View Post
I had a client who built a 5 bedroom home in the Wake Forest area. We used a very well known custom builder in this area. He told us that lots in this area will NOT perk for a 5 bedroom home and therefore, even though the home has 5 bedrooms, the town inspector will call it a 4 bedroom with a bonus room. The home already had one bonus room but the builder said it didn't matter as the town inspectors in this area understood that. He said MOST LOTS will only perk for a 3 bedroom. He said it has nothing to do with the lines but the absorption of the land.

I am NOT an expert on septics and leach fields so I am going on what he said. I've asked other builders about this and they tell me that what he told us is accurate. I've also asked the guy I used for inspecting septics and he said the same thing. My client did additional research and was fine with this. He is an attorney and believe me, he did his research! So, it was ok with him.

So, my question about adding another line is...does that make the land "perk"?

And...if the home perks for a 3 bedroom but you really have 4 bedrooms, wouldn't you just have the septic cleaned out more often? And if you have more boys than girls, does that make a difference???

So, is it a big deal or is it a big deal because we don't understand what having a permit for a 3 bedroom versus a 4 bedroom, really means?

Vicki
The key is to have enough "perkable"" soil to support the number of bedrooms. The additional line just lets you take advantage of the additional perk area. The odd thing to me if why the original builder didn't do this if indeed enough perkable land exists. Adding a line to soil that doesn't perk does you no good. Note that the code also requires a "reserve field" as septic fields do fail ..
Frank
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Unread 10-18-2010, 11:00 AM
 
2,043 posts, read 3,370,613 times
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Useful link

WakeGOV.com - Frequently Asked Questions

The perk test has evolved into a "Soil Evaluation" ...

Frank
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Unread 10-19-2010, 08:44 PM
 
121 posts, read 155,672 times
Reputation: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Janecj View Post
You are asking a tough a question here. You, the buyer, has to be the one satisfied with the outcome. To poll the public on what they think won't work. It depends so much on what the market is when you sell, what that current buyer is looking for at that time (maybe they don't care about having 4 bedroom, maybe they care about the yard moreso also), maybe laws will have also changed; You just don't know. It sounds like you really like the home and the yard as it stands today. Trying to predict the future outcome is unlikely. You have only 2 options. Accept the home as it is and take the compensation to rectify it, or move on. I think you have already made your decision. Hope it works for you.
I wasn't merely trying to "poll the public." I need ideas on what to do and how to go about researching this, and I got that information from the lovely people here. I really wasn't sure how to find out some facts about this issue so that I could make an informed decision.

Yes, we have made our decision.
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Unread 10-19-2010, 08:51 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
9,903 posts, read 15,630,268 times
Reputation: 5460
Quote:
Originally Posted by newgirlRaleigh View Post
I wasn't merely trying to "poll the public." I need ideas on what to do and how to go about researching this, and I got that information from the lovely people here. I really wasn't sure how to find out some facts about this issue so that I could make an informed decision.

Yes, we have made our decision.
Don't leave us hanging!!! We want to know!

Vicki
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Unread 10-21-2010, 04:35 AM
 
121 posts, read 155,672 times
Reputation: 81
We have asked the sellers to give us the money at closing that they would have used to upgrade the septic so that we can make the decision to either upgrade the septic or convert a bedroom to an office---on our own time once we are living there.

We don't want to rush and lose trees and potentially damage others. We are leaning toward turning one of the bedrooms into an office, which we know will probably mean the house will end up with lower resale value, but our hope is we will live there a very long time, so that point may be moot. There's just no way to estimate what kind of hit we are taking money-wise by doing that. Or, we could end up getting the septic upgraded anyway, but by waiting, we can research further about the effect on the trees and decide if that is a risk we want to take. Right now, just before closing, seems like a bad time to make a rushed decision like that.

Thank you everyone for helping us weigh the pros and cons.
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Unread 10-21-2010, 05:32 AM
 
8,881 posts, read 16,833,869 times
Reputation: 7993
This may be a dumb question - but what's the difference between a "bedroom" and an "office"? I mean if you have a room with a window, door, and a closet how exactly is it designated an "office" vs. bedroom?
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