What should I do if our HOA bully us (Raleigh: chapel, house)

[jshen12000]

Our back yards butts a greenway. The builder has built our house drainage towards the greenway and we have also built an additional french drainage to drain water towards the greenway. The HOA ordered us to redirect the french drainage to higher ground of the front house, and threatened to fine us $100/day.

Every house in that row of the street has drainages towards that greenway. I checked with Town of Cary's engineering department before putting the french drain, an engineer came and said OK. There is no any wording in the HOA covenants which says no drainage towards the greenway. Majority of water comes from the builder's built drainage too.

After our rejection on this HOA's remanding, HOA is checking with Town of Cary and the builder to ask them to repair the eroded greenway. The builder already rejected it. If Town of Cary rejects, the HOA will come back to hunt us.

I am very upset about this and feel we are bullied by the HOA.

What should we do? Please help.

[North_Raleigh_Guy]

Have you contacted the HOA management company and discussed you issue and the fact that there is nothing in the covenants speaking to this requirement? I would also ask why your house is being treated differently than the others? Start with the HOA management company. Perhaps there is simply some miscommunication going on.

[Sherifftruman]

The HOA is probably trying to ensure that you don't end up directing water toward other homeowners. I agree you should try to meet the manager and possibly Cary to look at it as drainage and erosion are always touchy issues. Sometimes people need to see the issue firsthand and talk about it.

[Beermat]

Originally Posted by jshen12000

I checked with Town of Cary's engineering department before putting the french drain, an engineer came and said OK.

There is no any wording in the HOA covenants which says no drainage towards the greenway. Majority of water comes from the builder's built drainage too.

Firstly, I would get in touch with ToC and get confirmation that they approved your french drain rather than let the HOA do that as they may word the request in a different context and get a different answer. Even better if you have the approval in writing. Did you get approval from the HOA before installing the french drain in accordance with any provisions in your covenants?

Secondly, I would be surprized if your convenants don't have general provisions on Drainage, so I would re-read or get advice on this urgently. Your comment that says the covenants don't mention 'no drainage towards the greenway' is probably true , but the interpretation of the overall drainage provisions is what is important rather than a specific situation.

I know it sucks but in my experience you have little chance of winning in any disagreement over HOA covenants as there are always wide ranging provisions in favor of the HOA rather than the home owner.

[CHTransplant]

What would it matter if the covenants don't speak to this? It doesn't strike me as a covenant issue. Rather, it's a basic stormwater drainage issue, and last I heard on this (at least in Chapel Hill) one property owner is not permitted to send a greater flow onto another owner's property than would otherwise naturally occur. The OP doesn't own the greenway, hence he can't dump the outflow from his drains there.

[North_Raleigh_Guy]

Originally Posted by CHTransplant

What would it matter if the covenants don't speak to this?

I think it does matter. If the Town approved the placement of the drain and the HOA covenants are silent on the issue then it is difficult to see what authority the HOA has on the matter.

All bets are off though if the town did not approve it (or that it isn't on paper).

[CHTransplant]

Originally Posted by North_Raleigh_Guy

I think it does matter. If the Town approved the placement of the drain and the HOA covenants are silent on the issue then it is difficult to see what authority the HOA has on the matter.

I assumed (maybe incorrectly) that the HOA owned the greenway as common property. If so, it clearly has something to say about a property owner dumping stormwater onto its property.

[cry884]

We can't answer the question for you without seeing your covenants and bylaws. I'm happy to help if I can. However, I urge you to have an open mind that you may be in the wrong on this. About 75% of the people who come to me saying their HOAs are bullying them are actually in the wrong. The other 25%, I can help.

[jshen12000]

Originally Posted by cry884

We can't answer the question for you without seeing your covenants and bylaws. I'm happy to help if I can. However, I urge you to have an open mind that you may be in the wrong on this. About 75% of the people who come to me saying their HOAs are bullying them are actually in the wrong. The other 25%, I can help.

Hi dear, I am copying HOA's reply mail to you below. Black colored are what I wrote to HOA and Blue are what HOA responded. Thanks for the help.

(1) Provide exact legal description issued by Town of Cary which dictates that house' drainage can not direct towards the "walk way". We need such documentation to deal with our builder upon your response from your mail below since the vast majority of the water comes from the drainage built by the builder and our additional french drain goes along the same swale the builder built which within one year of the house purchasing they also came reinforced it, and the french drain idea also was brought by the builder, just we paid it by ourselves instead of dealing with the builder. Also, if you say you are only demanding us to change the french drainage, then give us your motivation of why leaving more 95% of the water on the greenway.

Southbridge HOA covenants, Article V, Sections 1 and 2. Section 2 states that if Association determines that the need for maintenance, repair or replacement is caused due through the willful or negligent act of any Owner….then the Association may perform the repair, replacement or maintenance and it shall be at the Owners sole cost and expense.

We will re-confirm whether the Town is responsible for that section. Weiland is reviewing this as well.

Provide exact description of HOA covenants of which we received upon the house purchasing to dictate that home owners can not direct their house' drainage towards the "walk way". If so, give explanation of such HOA covenants are not in conflict with government's legal description.

If the town is not responsible for that section, then the HOA is. Therefore they have the right to repair it and back charge any homeowner that is causing the issue.

[North_Raleigh_Guy]

The tone of your email sounds arguementative. Not really the best approach when trying to find a solution. Why does everyone get all "official" and "legal" sounding when writing their HOA? Remember, when you contact your HOA Board you are talking to your neighbors.