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Old 11-08-2010, 08:00 PM
 
Location: Morrisville
1,168 posts, read 2,086,892 times
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Just wondering....What do you guys consider "poor quality of construction"? Nail pops? Squeeky floors? Cracked concrete?

As others have posted, you get what you pay for. I'd love to know where you can find a brand new home, 2,000+ square feet for less than $250,000.
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Old 11-08-2010, 08:06 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggJoe4181 View Post
I'd love to know where you can find a brand new home, 2,000+ square feet for less than $250,000.
Texas. And it will be all brick too.
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Old 11-08-2010, 08:13 PM
 
Location: Morrisville
1,168 posts, read 2,086,892 times
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Originally Posted by NewUser View Post
Texas. And it will be all brick too.
Nice. Perhaps I should re-phrase. Where in Cary can you find a brand new 2000+ square foot home for less than $250,000.

I'd be willing to bet it's not going to be a custom builder.

And by the way, why would you need brick in Texas? Isn't it hot as all hell there?
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Old 11-08-2010, 08:27 PM
 
Location: under the beautiful Carolina blue
15,809 posts, read 24,157,410 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggJoe4181 View Post
Just wondering....What do you guys consider "poor quality of construction"? Nail pops? Squeeky floors? Cracked concrete?
.
As the poster prior to you pointed out, it's often fairly obvious. My sister came over today to see my finished attic and she said "wow, this guy does nice work. Not like when my attic was finished and I could've done a better job - doors didn't hang right, gaps in the sheetrock, mouldings not meeting properly"....etc etc.

When my DH and I were looking at for our first house many years ago, we looked at a house that was "builder owned" (the guy hadn't built the house, but he was a builder and we were meant to believe that meant his house was in top-notch condition) - well, he'd done some work to the house, putting in new doors and mouldings, etc - the doors didn't close because the latches didn't line up with the doorjambs, there were gaps where the ceiling mouldings met in the corners, switchplates that didn't fit on the walls correctly, and so on. These are things that will drive you crazy once you own the home.
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Old 11-08-2010, 09:30 PM
 
Location: Morrisville
1,168 posts, read 2,086,892 times
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Originally Posted by twingles View Post
As the poster prior to you pointed out, it's often fairly obvious. My sister came over today to see my finished attic and she said "wow, this guy does nice work. Not like when my attic was finished and I could've done a better job - doors didn't hang right, gaps in the sheetrock, mouldings not meeting properly"....etc etc.

When my DH and I were looking at for our first house many years ago, we looked at a house that was "builder owned" (the guy hadn't built the house, but he was a builder and we were meant to believe that meant his house was in top-notch condition) - well, he'd done some work to the house, putting in new doors and mouldings, etc - the doors didn't close because the latches didn't line up with the doorjambs, there were gaps where the ceiling mouldings met in the corners, switchplates that didn't fit on the walls correctly, and so on. These are things that will drive you crazy once you own the home.
Ok. I'll grant you shoddy craftmanship when it's a DIY job but what specifically do you consider "poor quality" when it comes to newhomes? I've worked for a few national "tract" builders and custom builders and I can tell you that the amount of blue tape at the final walkthrough was the same at all the places.

Couldn't "poor quality" be a perception thing? I mean, if you've only driven a Lexus, wouldn't you consider a toyota "lesser quality" car?
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Old 11-08-2010, 09:39 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
11,810 posts, read 27,539,598 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggJoe4181 View Post
Ok. I'll grant you shoddy craftmanship when it's a DIY job but what specifically do you consider "poor quality" when it comes to newhomes? I've worked for a few national "tract" builders and custom builders and I can tell you that the amount of blue tape at the final walkthrough was the same at all the places.

Couldn't "poor quality" be a perception thing? I mean, if you've only driven a Lexus, wouldn't you consider a toyota "lesser quality" car?
Perception is interesting. Very much like an opinion. Everyone has one.

However, perception isn't face and therefore doesn't mean that a home IS poor quality. If a town/county inspector says the home meets code and a private home inspector says the home meets code, how is it that someone with little to no construction experience can say it is "poor quality"?

Everyone has a choice of the home they want to purchase. If one person thinks a home is poor quality, then I think they should buy somewhere else.

However, I don't think it makes them the expert or gives them the experience to tell the 500 other families that live in one of those homes that they are wrong. I don't remember how many homes are currently at Twin Lakes but I'm willing to bet that those families think very highly of their home and since they are the ones living in them, I'll take their opinions, which are based on experience over someone who doesn't live there.

To each his own.

Vicki
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Old 11-09-2010, 06:19 AM
 
5,359 posts, read 15,097,079 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggJoe4181 View Post
And by the way, why would you need brick in Texas? Isn't it hot as all hell there?
Better to withstand the elements. . .

Because it's cheap enough that they can. .

Maybe 4" of brick is a better insulator than 1/4" are Hardiplank siding . . .
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Old 11-09-2010, 06:34 AM
 
Location: Morrisville, NC
7,710 posts, read 10,149,580 times
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Well, building codes are just enough to keep a house off the ground and liveable (in most cases at least) There so many things that a quality minded builder can do above what code requires that make a house better quality like:

Number of and location of outlets (code requires only a certain number based on walls and size of room), whether the electrician backstabs the wire on those devices rather than putting the wires under the screws which is much better even though both meet code most places.

Drywall installation and finishing (did they consider framing layout and install drywall to minimize joints in areas of potential movement)

During framing, was thought given to aligning crowns of framing members, was the house carefully kept square, were the tolerances on cuts kept very tight? (these items can directly affect drywall installation appearance)

Roof installation (a very small amount of money and time spent here to exceed minimum will help avoid potential leaks and make the roof last longer not to mention differences in shingle quality)

Size, profile and installation of trim, both inside and outside (on the exterior, little trim is required by code but adding trim around windows gives you a much better looking product and of course, size matters. Same applies inside plus many guys working strictly production will not cope corners which will cause shrinkage problems down the road)

Stuff like faucets and hardware and doorknobs are things you touch dozens if times a day, have a wide range in quality and are hardly even addressed with code.

I'm sure I can think if more but with all due respect thus us like saying because all realtors have to pass the exam every year and they have people overseeing them they are all the same.
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Old 11-09-2010, 06:58 AM
 
Location: Cary, NC
31,723 posts, read 55,591,792 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherifftruman View Post
Well, building codes are just enough to keep a house off the ground and liveable (in most cases at least) There so many things that a quality minded builder can do above what code requires that make a house better quality like:

Number of and location of outlets (code requires only a certain number based on walls and size of room), whether the electrician backstabs the wire on those devices rather than putting the wires under the screws which is much better even though both meet code most places.

Drywall installation and finishing (did they consider framing layout and install drywall to minimize joints in areas of potential movement)

During framing, was thought given to aligning crowns of framing members, was the house carefully kept square, were the tolerances on cuts kept very tight? (these items can directly affect drywall installation appearance)

Roof installation (a very small amount of money and time spent here to exceed minimum will help avoid potential leaks and make the roof last longer not to mention differences in shingle quality)

Size, profile and installation of trim, both inside and outside (on the exterior, little trim is required by code but adding trim around windows gives you a much better looking product and of course, size matters. Same applies inside plus many guys working strictly production will not cope corners which will cause shrinkage problems down the road)

Stuff like faucets and hardware and doorknobs are things you touch dozens if times a day, have a wide range in quality and are hardly even addressed with code.

I'm sure I can think if more but with all due respect thus us like saying because all realtors have to pass the exam every year and they have people overseeing them they are all the same.
Yes. Houses built to minimum code are commonly an ugly piece of work.

When you ask the builder/builder's rep about their quality program, town inspection is not relevant. Quality comes from the builder, not the inspection. Even the most rigorous inspection is not a replacement for a process of construction continuously monitored by a caring builder.

Roofing installation? Who has ever seen a town inspector on a roof? It won't happen. Wrong and missed nailing and Flashing installation are the biggest reasons for roof failure. Skylight installation is so poor that roofers and builders will tell you all skylights leak, a lie promoted to sell poor workmanship over the years.
But, unfortunately, these issues are not limited to tract builders.

Electrical? Code does not require ceiling lights in bedrooms, dedicated circuitry for electronics, flood lights at exterior.

Framing? Code accepts black board sheathing, 24" O. C. interior studding, 24" O.C. trusses with 7/16" OSB sheathing w/ framing clips. (I think 3/8" plywood is a thing of the past in roofs.)
Sub-flooring can be nailed down, and the town inspector does not check for adequate glue or squeeks and pops. Common Sub-flooring can also be used to span framing members up to 24" O.C., resulting in bounce and noise.
I like going into a home that has been framed, and approved for insulation and taking a good look at the framing. If the builder has used 5 cans of orange spray paint to identify a great many issues for re-work, and the framing has been hacked and patched to make the inspector happy, I know that the minimum might have been met. Sloppily.

Slab homes wiith the slab cut up to move plumbing and electrical 3 and 4 feet are so common as to be depressing. If they cannot read the blueprints better than that, builder and tradesmen, you can expect to have other issues in the process. Too many construction supers are charged with getting sign-offs by deadlines, with getting it right a plus if it happens.

Building it right the first time is the real key to quality.
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Old 11-09-2010, 07:12 AM
 
5,359 posts, read 15,097,079 times
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I like watching HGTV's "Holmes on Homes", but the reality of that show is scary. Throughout the show he will say things like. . . . "This meets code, but here's why that's not good enough." It's amazing to me what builders get away with and what the inspectors miss.
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