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That's OK, I like giving suggestions and bringing up topics about what people are asking for. I wasn't telling anybody how to run their city. I thought CD was open to anybody to discuss any topics regardless of where they live. There is a strong possibility that I'll be moving there in the near future if that has anything to do with it. I was hoping to find somewhere like this.
This question has been asked several times and I was just curious as to why there weren't any areas like this as I'm sure other people are curious too. I didn't realize I'd be stepping anybody's toes by bringing up the topic.
The OP brings up a very good topic and one that I think many of us can connect with. I also live in California (Bay Area) and am looking into moving to the Triangle with my wife and baby boy. We visited there in October and loved it. We believe that it has a lot going for it (leading industries, decent weather, higher education, proximity to mountain and ocean, etc). My wife is in biotech and I'm in healthcare, so this area is on the top of our very short list of potential places to relocate to.
Although we can imagine ourselves raising our family here, we were disappointed in the lack of the "suburban downtowns". The closest thing to it was downtown Chapel Hill. Having a nice downtown in the city/town that you live in is a very nice feature to have for us. A pedestrian friendly downtown that is close to the residential neighborhoods is nice. I also agree that a downtown in Cary would be nice. It would be great if it had cafes (with outdoor seating), dog friendly shops, breakfast places, ice cream parlors, a few bars (or wine bars), coffee roasters, as well as some convenient businesses such as banks and a grocery store (Wholefoods/Trader Joe's). On weekends, they can also use it as a venue for a farmer's market. From my experience, the concept of a nice downtown really helps to bring local communities together. It gives the town more of an identity. It's a meeting spot. It helps support local businesses and fosters community pride. It's a place where kids and adults can come together to hang out.
There are many fabulous downtowns in California. Most of them took time to take shape. Some of them, however, happened quite fast with concerted efforts from city government and residential support.
For better or worse, sprawl has been the dominant form of development for decades now in every state. If you're looking for a walkable downtown neighborhood, you're going to have to join those who are investing in urban cores and trying to re-establish that long-lost walkable lifestyle. Various neighborhoods in different price ranges in Downtown Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill and many of the outlying towns have an urban cores that need new residents and businesses to bring about a walkable lifestyle. Some areas are more walkable than others and those that are tend to attract top dollar.
Chapel Hill/Carrboro is fairly walkable
in Durham, talk to or read the writings of Bull City Rising
In Raleigh, check out Downtown Living Advocates
Drive around, find the area whose vibe resonates with you, put down some roots and encourage others to do the same.
Cameron Village in Raleigh has "cafes (with outdoor seating), dog friendly shops (well, they can sit outside at the cafes), breakfast places, ice cream parlors, a few bars (or wine bars), coffee roasters, as well as some convenient businesses such as banks and a grocery store." It is in a residential area with older homes and is near downtown Raleigh.
Quote:
Originally Posted by joechiar
The OP brings up a very good topic and one that I think many of us can connect with. I also live in California (Bay Area) and am looking into moving to the Triangle with my wife and baby boy. We visited there in October and loved it. We believe that it has a lot going for it (leading industries, decent weather, higher education, proximity to mountain and ocean, etc). My wife is in biotech and I'm in healthcare, so this area is on the top of our very short list of potential places to relocate to.
Although we can imagine ourselves raising our family here, we were disappointed in the lack of the "suburban downtowns". The closest thing to it was downtown Chapel Hill. Having a nice downtown in the city/town that you live in is a very nice feature to have for us. A pedestrian friendly downtown that is close to the residential neighborhoods is nice. I also agree that a downtown in Cary would be nice. It would be great if it had cafes (with outdoor seating), dog friendly shops, breakfast places, ice cream parlors, a few bars (or wine bars), coffee roasters, as well as some convenient businesses such as banks and a grocery store (Wholefoods/Trader Joe's). On weekends, they can also use it as a venue for a farmer's market. From my experience, the concept of a nice downtown really helps to bring local communities together. It gives the town more of an identity. It's a meeting spot. It helps support local businesses and fosters community pride. It's a place where kids and adults can come together to hang out.
There are many fabulous downtowns in California. Most of them took time to take shape. Some of them, however, happened quite fast with concerted efforts from city government and residential support.
I love the historic homes too. That's what I'm talking about, the empty stores. If they would fill those vacant stores with restaurants, bars, cafe's, shops, etc, it would be great.
Actually, BeckyCat, I think "They" are people like you who think it would be cool, take a risk, buy one of those great houses, then open a shop or business in the area in need of change.
Eventually the walkable neighborhood takes off, they sell out and retire to the next cool place.
Be the change you want to see in the world!
Or, my personal favorite "If you think Someone should do Something, chances are, you are Someone"
Unfortunately I don't have any particular patience for running a business or I would be a 'They'/'Someone' for you. I'm big on ideas and connections and not so good with numbers, which is partly why I'm a librarian! I'm in the market for a new husband who can handle the business end of my bookstore, I'll let you know if I find him and where our shop is going to be!
Local, county, state and federal regulations fees, permits and taxes and licenses might also be a deterrent to "They". Some who have looked into it say it is easier to open a business in Communist China than it is in this country these days. Certainly the federal government hasn't shown any indication of lightening up on taxes and regulations for small businesses. It is just the opposite.
But nobody would argue that it isn't a nice idea to live within a quarter of a mile of a grocery store and some cafes and restaurants. Too bad we can't wave a magic wand and go back in time to when American cities and towns were geared towards serving the needs of the local population and were thriving.
I think it's fine and well to say a thriving downtown, walk able neighborhood and non-chain establishment are what people want, but at least in Apex, that notion doesn't seem to pan out. People may have a dream of that "small town feel", but then they hop in the car and hit the SuperTarget.
I've seen too many "They's" come in, pour their life savings into a small business (those charming coffee shops, family owned restaurants, interesting shops) only to lose it all. People may love the thought of that family stroll down for coffee on a Friday night, but that lasts about, um, twice and they are right back in line at Starbucks. Eventually they read online that Ye Old Coffee Shop has closed and they say, "Gee, we liked that place, wonder why it didn't last? Sure wish we had more places like that down town"
The list of failed businesses is vast here, but you can't find a seat to rest your fanny at Chili's on a Saturday night. The line out of Chick Fil A during lunch rush is down right absurd. Panera rarely has a slow moment of the day, and don't think the bank is giving away cash after hours...that's just the overflow parking from TGIFridays.
THEY did come. They started Xios, they started the Bean & Bagel, they started Booda Beans, they started Vinny's. THEY are no longer.
I don't think I could in good conscience ever recommend someone put themselves out there to revitalize a downtown. No matter how dreamy it sounds to walk from shop to shop. Not talking a major developer taking a gamble, but just a little guy with a dream...no way. Keep your dream and send your resume to Brueggers. At least in a year you'll still have a roof over your head.
Some who have looked into it say it is easier to open a business in Communist China than it is in this country these days.
Hyperbole, not to be taken literally! Anybody who says that has not been to China much. I have been to China a lot, and I've also run a small business here.
Last edited by wizard-xyzzy; 12-26-2010 at 05:11 AM..
I think it's fine and well to say a thriving downtown, walk able neighborhood and non-chain establishment are what people want, but at least in Apex, that notion doesn't seem to pan out. People may have a dream of that "small town feel", but then they hop in the car and hit the SuperTarget.
I've seen too many "They's" come in, pour their life savings into a small business (those charming coffee shops, family owned restaurants, interesting shops) only to lose it all. People may love the thought of that family stroll down for coffee on a Friday night, but that lasts about, um, twice and they are right back in line at Starbucks. Eventually they read online that Ye Old Coffee Shop has closed and they say, "Gee, we liked that place, wonder why it didn't last? Sure wish we had more places like that down town"
The list of failed businesses is vast here, but you can't find a seat to rest your fanny at Chili's on a Saturday night. The line out of Chick Fil A during lunch rush is down right absurd. Panera rarely has a slow moment of the day, and don't think the bank is giving away cash after hours...that's just the overflow parking from TGIFridays.
THEY did come. They started Xios, they started the Bean & Bagel, they started Booda Beans, they started Vinny's. THEY are no longer.
I don't think I could in good conscience ever recommend someone put themselves out there to revitalize a downtown. No matter how dreamy it sounds to walk from shop to shop. Not talking a major developer taking a gamble, but just a little guy with a dream...no way. Keep your dream and send your resume to Brueggers. At least in a year you'll still have a roof over your head.
First, a quick "whoops!" for missing the "looking for smaller towns" in the OP's comment -- yes, that does rule out Raleigh and Durham, though I'd also agree with the points made above that they're the most likely places to find the kind of vibrant, independent businesses and walkable shopping districts.
The mention of Starbucks brought me a chuckle. We had a SBUX open up in downtown Durham as part of the American Tobacco Campus project five years ago. It didn't draw many crowds and failed a couple of years in. Meanwhile, independent stores serving coffee like Parker & Otis and Beyu Caffe have opened up and done well. And the Starbucks slot has been filled by an independent, local coffee shop, Saladelia, which has done much better than SBUX did.
The broader point here is to note that HollyMarshall is on to something. If you're looking for a place where independent businesses and walkable areas thrive, see how the demand looks for chain businesses vs. locally-owned enterprises.
I think it's fine and well to say a thriving downtown, walk able neighborhood and non-chain establishment are what people want, but at least in Apex, that notion doesn't seem to pan out. People may have a dream of that "small town feel", but then they hop in the car and hit the SuperTarget.
I've seen too many "They's" come in, pour their life savings into a small business (those charming coffee shops, family owned restaurants, interesting shops) only to lose it all. People may love the thought of that family stroll down for coffee on a Friday night, but that lasts about, um, twice and they are right back in line at Starbucks. Eventually they read online that Ye Old Coffee Shop has closed and they say, "Gee, we liked that place, wonder why it didn't last? Sure wish we had more places like that down town"
The list of failed businesses is vast here, but you can't find a seat to rest your fanny at Chili's on a Saturday night. The line out of Chick Fil A during lunch rush is down right absurd. Panera rarely has a slow moment of the day, and don't think the bank is giving away cash after hours...that's just the overflow parking from TGIFridays.
THEY did come. They started Xios, they started the Bean & Bagel, they started Booda Beans, they started Vinny's. THEY are no longer.
I don't think I could in good conscience ever recommend someone put themselves out there to revitalize a downtown. No matter how dreamy it sounds to walk from shop to shop. Not talking a major developer taking a gamble, but just a little guy with a dream...no way. Keep your dream and send your resume to Brueggers. At least in a year you'll still have a roof over your head.
That is a darn shame! I can agree with you to a certain extent and I have seen certain businesses come and go in different towns. On the other hand, I've seen towns that have been very successful. I've seen residents gather and go to these establishments and have community events right in the center of town. The establishments are part of the events and it draws business to them. It's called a sense of community and I think families are longing for that.
Have you checked out Fuquay Varina? There are two downtowns... both with cute little shops. When we first drove through, we didn't notice the variety. Now that we have been down here for a while, we have noticed a lot more. Worth a second look if you have ever been down!
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There is a strong possibility that I'll be moving there in the near future if that has anything to do with it. I was hoping to find somewhere like this.
Be the change
When we first drove through, we didn't notice the variety. Now that we have been down here for a while, we have noticed a lot more. Worth a second look if you have ever been down!
